Starter Cracked

I have a 455, with turbo 350 tranny in my Buick Regal!

In the last 3 months I have cracked the casing around the nose of 3 DIFFERENT starters. The car will start fine and the all of the sudden just won't start due to the crack.

Also on one of the starters it appeared that the flywheel was digging into the nose of the starter. So the last starter I trimmed around the bend of the nose a little.

I am totally baffled, the car starts for and sounds like it is engaging fine until suddnely it won't start.

This was my first rebuild, and the flywheel was a brand new one, and still appears to be in good shape!

I am at a loss for what is causing this, but I need to figure it out before installing another starter.

A couple of questions:

Can the flywheel for a Buick be put on backwards?

Are the flywheels for the 350 and 400 turbo's the same?

Is this a common problem, and can someone point me in the right direction?

 

A freind of mine had this problem with cheaper Auto Zone, etc, starters. He later got one from NAPA that worked. He may have just got lucky with the last one.

Try to check the clearance between the starter drive and the flywheel. Pull the starter drive out by hand and a 1/8" allen wrench should fit between the tooth of the starter drive and inbetween the flywheel teeth. Make sure the flywheel is like this.

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50400

Make sure the starter bolts are the correct ones. They should have the nurrled area near the threads.

You may want to look into a mini starter from someone like
www.turbobuicks.com They are $125 and I have two of them now.

Good luck and maybe someone else will chime in as well.

 

Check for clearance of about a paper clip when engaged , a tooth missing on the wheel and/or too much timing. I had to have the bell housing milled on one to get the clearance into spec. That solved the issue. I think the clearance spec appears first in about a 71 manual. You may have to shim it just a tad too.

 

Flywheels/Flexplates need to be correct for both the engine, the converter, and the starter used.

1. The flywheel needs to have the proper bolt pattern to fit the crank, the proper counterweight (if any) to balance the engine.

2. The flywheel needs the proper bolt pattern to fit the torque converter.

3. The flywheel needs to be the proper diameter to engage the starter.

DEPENDING ON THE ENGINE, the flywheel can indeed be installed backwards. The 454 Chevy in my boat was done that way. Since the counterweight on the flywheel was not in the proper place in regards to engine balance that way, it's no wonder the engine shook like a dog crapping razor blades.

I suspect you haven't shimmed the starter for proper clearance. How many shims are you using? Are you shimming both bolts evenly or do you need to shim one more than the other?

 

-Lip on the flywheel is facing toward the engine, so that is correct.

-Teeth on flywheel appear to be fine!

-I have shimmed the starters with as many as 3 shims, and even tried one of them without any shims. Just adjusting it until it sounded correct.

-The first 2 starters were from Autozone, the last one from Napa!

I really thought that this time I had it right, it SOUNDED like it was starting perfect.(But it obviously it wasn't)

The nose of the starter looked like the flywheel had been grinding into it a little.

I believe I will try one of the high torque starters, but I would like to know that the problem is fixed before throwing a $125 starter on it.

Thanks for all of the help!

 

My guess is you have too much cylinder pressure while the engine is cranking which will cause the engine to kick back breaking the nose of the starter.

Check your cranking compression!

Good Luck

 

Cranking compression would have to be sky-high to do that.

On the other hand, if the ignition was too advanced, or the plug wires were on wrong or crossfiring, I'd believe starter damage from a cylinder trying to spin the crank backwards.

 

lip on the flywheel is supposed to go away from the engine,alos having a 350 behind a 455 isnt a good idea is the bell housing cracked? have both dowl pins in the block? are the correct ones?

 

If the camshaft was installed without being degreed in then it could be as much as 8 to 10 degrees advanced. This will cause several problems.

So... was the camshaft ever degreed in?

To much initial timing will not help this issue also.


The flywheel will only go on one way.


My 535 Buick has 14.7:1 compression and NEVER wants to kick the engine back. I also have the timing locked out at 32 total advance.

Good Luck

 

How about the distributor? Are you getting kickback, I wonder? I work with a shop mechanic from the '60s who tells me this was not unheard of if moisture got into the distributor cap.

 

I have broken a couple of starters this way. If you look at the noses on these staters you can see a casting flaw that runs through the aluminum. This is where they break. Mine happened both times on hot motors on hot days so I attributed the problem to preignition. Autozone kept giving me new starters and I finally backed my initial timing up during the summer and that has kept me from breaking another.

 

Kentuckcard,

When the starters break does the engine actually stop turning and try to go in the opposite direction???



Guys... if the scenario above is whats happening then only two things could cause this.

1. Cylinders are firing to early trying to force the engine to move counter clockwise. Dont quote me on this but if memory serves me correctly having the initial fire happen at 16 degrees Before Top Dead Center (BTDC) is good for a street engine.

2. The intake valve is closing to close to BDC which will cause the cylinder to build pressure to early. Which will also cause the cylinder to have to much cylinder pressure. The more a camshaft is advanced the earlier the intake valve closes.

I hope this helps explain what might be taking place.

Good Luck

 

You guys are given me some good directions to look in! Thanks!

-The cam was not degreed in, is my first rebuild and it was done the old TDC way.

-So far I have had one person tell me the lip of the flywheel should face the engine, and another tell me it should face the transmission????? Mine is facing the engine!

-Atleast 2 of the times it has failed to start it had been sitting overnight, but I guess that doesn't rule out the starter cracking before the actual starter failure.

I did get a used High Torque starter today, to try out. It is a 455 starter with little use.

Do I need to adjust my timing? Can i do this by just turning my distributor and adjusting with timing light, or do I need to go back and degree my cam? Or should I just stick the High Torque in and check the shims closely, just hope it is fixed.

I just rebuilt this engine, and it has less than 1000 miles on it! Plus I just got a great paint job less than 1 month ago, and the car was finally coming together. That is why I am getting stressed out over this whole frustrating deal.

Thanks again for the help! I am not as ignorant as it seems, I'm just at a loss here!

 

I've been reading this thread and one thing I had trouble with years ago was the size of my starter cable. Make sure you have a large enough cable feeding the starter. I busted a couple of starters before I changed my cable to a large one and it made a big difference on how the motor spins over. If the motor is spinning to slow it will put a lot of stress on the nosepiece of the starter.

Good luck
Mike

 

Just one thought..........you are probably OK, but perhaps your spark plugs are too hot..........that could cause pre-ignition when hot. Try going one step colder. :bglasses:

 

Seems almost everything is covered here but you do put the brace back on near the back of the starter, right??? It helps take some of the load off the nose....its the angled piece, bolts to the starter and the block.

Later
Tim

 

TimR-no I didn't have a bracket on the back of the starter! Didn't know it even had one, I bought the block without any brackets ect on it so I wasn't even aware of the back bracket. Could have been the problem.

Installed the USED high torque starter I bought. Seemed to be fine, until I turned it over about the 5th time and the starter stayed engaged. Car shut off, but the starter continued to turn.

It is supposed to be a buick 455 starter, but it appeared to be sitting too close to the flywheel. I shimmed it with about 6 shims, and worked my way down to 1. It started best with about 3 shims in, but that is also where it wants to stay engaged at times. And even with the 3 shims I didn't like the way the clearance looked, just looked to tight. Puzzled!

I've seen on this board where someone sells the High torque starters that are said to mount up almost perfectly. I'm thinking that may be my best bet right now????????????

If I hadn't had this car since I was 17, I think I would roll it over the hill. But it is my BABY so I'm going to try and work this aggravating problem out!