stroker or blower? which is worth the money?

my buddy just finished up his 93 5.0 mustang and it got me motivated to get on the ball with my project. basically, i want to know what would be the best setup and bang for the buck.

im thinking of going with a low compression 455 with the ati procharger setup a few guys are running...

or a high compression 455 with the 494 or 523 stroker kit.

i think the first option would be a lot cheaper up front. maybe 4 grand after all is said and done.

the other option would be around 6 grand total? but im thinking there would be less to worry about, as far as too much boost and det.

so what would benifit me more? what would the power gain be from the stroker motor compared to the blower?

what i have so far is a 75 block, standard bore, 73 heads, stock crank and rods. its not a lot but im trying to look at the big picture and do it right the first time. sorry for all the questions guys, but im still a rookie and need a good kit in the butt!

pete

 

options

You need to determine what your goal really is~ all out race car or a strong street car, then go from there. Yes, some guys do both and may I add with much skill.
The stroker Buick is a KILLER KILLER combo! Torque is truly unbelievable. You mentioned 'big picture', it never hurts to have a good, strong engine to build on and go from there.
The ati is equally impressive set up but takes a good size learning curve to figure out ( you need to do a search on this board )
Kelly.

 

i want a good solid street car that can hold its own at the track. its my driver right now but once the power gets up there ill get another car. then itll be mainly cruises and track time. i just noticed you have the 494 kit. what combo are you running? and what kind of power? when i first realized the potential of the 455 i figured around 450 to 500 hp/tourqe would be fairly easy to get. am i right in guessing the initial cost of it? thanks for your input!

pete

 

Just did a 494 with an ATI Supercharger on it..

8.2 to 1 compression, 318/ 260 cfm STG 2 heads, 238/248 on a 114 lc cam, SPX and 950 HP modified by the carb shop.

With a standard nothing fancy 850 Holley on it, it made 546 Torque and 540 HP, naturally aspirated, could have tuned it up to 550 a side with a different carb, spacers ect...

At 6 psi, it made 700 ft/lbs and 715 HP.. on pump gas.

It's a cool combo, albeit an expensive one.

That was nearly 20K worth of motor, with all the goodies..

JW

 

only half a years pay for me... the girlfriend would have to get another job... but it would be cool!!! :grin:

pete

 

is 10 grand a realistic budget for a 494 stroker motor with ta stage II heads?

if not, how far would it get me :3gears:

pete

 

assuming only the bottom end was put together prefessionally...

pete

 

464, Stg 2 TE heads, sportsman rods, ATI Supercharger, halo girdle or full girdle, 9.0 comp. Easy 10 sec combination, 9's with the right setup.

I'd recommend going with a stock stroke combo and a ATI supercharger. A stock stroke combo w/a ATI will give you the best #'s at the track over a 494 setup. i feel a 494 is just more stress on the block, adds expense, and you can make the same power with less cubes running the supercharger. Don't forget, you need a driveline and suspension components to handle the power. Power doesn't do you any good if you can't get it to the track. You'll need around a $1000 just for control arms and a converter.

The 494 is a good set up naturally aspirated but if your going to use a power adder, I definitely recommend a 464 setup. You can build a more street friendly combination using a power adder.

Here's the link for the ATI ProCharger
http://xsperformance.net/

 

definatly gets me thinking now. i know about the driveline and suspension mods too. its all in the "big picture" of where i want the car to be in a year.

do you have anymore details on your setup? how much maintinance is required for the blower? my friend has a procharger on his mustang and he says a lot of guys have issues with it losing oil. also, what type of fuel delivery mods have to be made?

pete

 

Most all of the new ATI Porchargers are self contained oil wise.... Losing oil shouldn't be a problem what so ever unless they are running the old type that feeds from the pan like Votech's setup.

As for fuel system setup. I'm using aerimotives A1100 pump..... A boost sensitive regulator that matches the rate of the pump.... and 1/2 line to the carb as well as a 1/2 return line...... anything less will choke the pump down.........

I think every thing is covered on my post under my posts in this sectoin. Run a search for ATI and you will pull it up.

 

You really need to figure out what you want the finished product to be.There are pros and cons for a blower or a stroker.As for budget take what you want to spend and double to triple it ask
anybody on this board and they will agree.Projects never end up at what you planned to spend there are so many things you foget in the budget.

 

hey rich. iv been following your progress on your project. your car is amazing! the videos way cool too. i love the idea of a blower but the tuning aspect of it scares me a little. id hate to miscalculate something really crappy happen. is it as bad as im making it out to be?

pete

 

Yes and no..... The right tools make it easier.

I flew into the deal pretty much blind on the boost thing. And boy have I learned alot via trial and error as well as reading. Most everyone on here should be able to learn from what I've done, what's worked and what hasn't ......

Now that's I've tuned on this thing for a while know, I can give you a ball park setup that will take the guess work out of it. There will still be some tuning to do, but with a "wideband" it takes the guess work out of it....... I would NEVER attempt to set one of these up without a wideband by my side again EVER!

If you are interested in this, let me know once you get going and I'll give you the carb tips you will need to make a good blowthrough carb (crap I again spent hours on
)

I can tell you one thing.... I will NEVER build another none boost High compression motor again. Boost gives you the best of both worlds and on pump gas.

 

On a good note.....

A good thing about going to a "power adder" is as long as you plan your build up around it, you can add/purchase the "power adder" after you get everything together and running in the car. THat will help spread some of the expense out.
Carb, "Blower Hat", head gaskets, compression, and cam will be where you need to pay particular attention on the build up to get it all to work together and run right. Don't forget to get an ignition setup that can compensate for boost and take out timing as needed.
Build the short block to the power you plan to run. You may be able to get away without a full girdle initially but in the end you'll want to run boost than what your stock block can handle. So make that $1000 decision before you start.
Try to stay away from an automatic overdrive transmission. YOu will make enough power to turn an OD into a headache that you won't need when your trying to tune it.

As far as tuning.......Its best to have someone that knows how to do a good initial tune for the blower. Learning on your own is fine but sometimes the headache and added expense of mistakes isn't worth it. So, its not hard to tune but you need to know how to get it close to start with. On the compression note that Nitro brought up, staying low on the compression is the best route but it will have to match your combination you set up. The Boost you plan to run has to match the cam. There are guys running 14.0 comp but they have cams over 280 degrees at .050 on a small block. You will want to stay between between 8.5 and 9.5 depending on how much cam and boost in relation to the rpm range you want to run in.

Here is a Pontiac web site that has a message board that deals with superchargers on a blow-through carb setup. Its worth a look. http://pontiacdude.cc/

 

If you want to drive a lot on the street, you could build a mild (but strong) motor, and hit it with some nitrous... works for me.

-Bob Cunningham

 

Here is a Blow-thru carb message board for superchargers AND turbos. I haven't had alot of time to look through it but it looks to have some interesting topics. :TU:

http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&user=huntracers

 

thanks for the replies guys. i think im leaning towards the blower setup. mainly for the price value. since id be able get the engine in the car sooner and spread out the cost a little more. what kind of compression are you all running? and what kind of numbers did you get without the blower?

thanks again.

pete

 

You set the limit. That D-1SC blower is good for 925 Hp if set up right. I'd go either 8.5 or 9.0 compression. Cylinder heads will determine how much power you cam make on a streetable combination. Its all about air flow. The more airflow you have the less boost it will take to make good #'s.

Jim W. I take it you used the "HL" series lobe on that cam. What rocker ratio did you use? Good to see you got that combination dyno'd. How worried were you about it? :laugh: Did you have to mess around with pulleys much to get the psi you wanted? A 494 is alot of motor to get 6 psi to. I know from messing around with the Mustang combinations that in one case going from a 306 to a 351 with a little better flowing cylinder head drop 5 pounds of boost.
It always cool to see 700+ Hp on such a mild street friendly combination. You had to be happy with the results. So whens the next blower project? Come on, you got to have the itch by now. :Brow:

 

Hey Pete.....

I'm running right at 9.0 to 1...... I agree with what Rick said 100%. If I was building a motor from scratch (like my next one) it will be around 8.5 to 1. You don't a need or want a large Comp ratio for a blower motor. As for pre blower times at this altitude with the same motor best time was 13.8........ I've yet to get get a good run at the same track but best time to date is 12.4 (the video racing the cobra).

I know the blower could easily take 2 full seconds off my best time. In fact in Vegas it did.... but that 's not apples for apples since I never ran the car there NA.

Rich

 

so the 12.4 is without the blower? thats very respectable in my eyes. what do you think the times would be in so. cal? what have you done to strengthin the block?

pete