TA cover vs. good stocker.

I'm planning a new 462 build. I'm trying to decide between a stock cover vs the TA. I have an excellent stock with little to no wear, no broken or stripped holes. The oil housing looks like new. The goal is an honest 500 horse and 6k rpm. What will the new cover get me? Thanks.

 

I would have no problem with a modifed stocker.

Spend the cash to go faster.

JW

 

If you're handing with a die grinder and want to spend the time to modify your stock cover and blueprint your own pump, then there's no real reason to go with TA. However, when I was building my 430, I chose to go all out on a few things and the front cover/oil pump by TA was one. Not having done ANY oililng mods to the block, the TA cover was basically my way to ensure I have the best oiling system I can without tearing the block down. In the end its all about money and piece of mind...I will say this though, I've gotten my 430 up to 6k several times in 2nd gear and so far not even a wink of trouble and oil pressure is rock steady.

 

When I got my TA cover I first laid it on the bench and compaired it to the somewhat modified stock piece. Mike made many changes to his cover that can not be done to a stock cover.

The best change I can think of now is the making of the oil circuits bigger/better and moving front seal to the outside.



If you are going to rev the engine anywhere near 6K, then you need to spend some money now and not much more later.

 

I think I'll mod my stocker. If money was no object I would definitly order the TA.

does anyone have any oil pressure test with the stock vs the TA cover? any actual results?

Thanks

 

I was thinking more of a test where a bbb with a stock cover and at a hot idle made 25lbs of pressure, then a TA cover was swapped and the mmotor had 35 lbs pressure at a hot idle. Theonly variable being the cover.

 

I'll get his input. Thanks.

 

If I may, I would like to add one thing that I have not read in this discussion. One major difference that can not be duplicated on a OEM cover is the actual size of the gears housing bore. GM said that the gear housing bore can have a .003" tolerance. At the high end, the bore can be up to .011" larger than the gears. A lot of GM covers out there are now larger than the max on the drawing including new some NOS covers as well as Proform. TA runs the gear housing bore .002" below GM's low side of the drawing. We have in place not .003" tolerance but only allow .001" from go to no go and start from .002" below the low end. This cannot be modified into other covers. This is big reason so many engines run with low oil pressure, hot. I have not mentioned yet that when the timing cover gets hot these numbers get even larger which compounds the problem. Remember, a lot of OE covers/other brands start at the high side of the tolerance scale, there big out of the box. Because its me steering this ship we keep them tight. I instruct our folks to check everyone. We now get calls on how to lower the oil pressure. TA is also the only cover that I know of that uses high grade A material. Which means its virgin aluminum no impurity's, never pored before, same material used in cylinder blocks, and other high end castings. The cover is then heat treated for hardness and stability. This was done to get the cover to hold all its sizes through many heat cycles for years. Other covers use a standard non heat treatable self aging material (less expensive), and from over seas, who knows. This part fuels, cools, oils and times your engine. In my opinion it is one of, or if not, the most important single part on your engine. If it were my engine I would save a little more and get it next month. Remember, I depend on these parts for my own cars as well as yours. "I get what I can give".

 

Ok, here's the long version of my answer..

First off, I stand by the basis of my first answer, spend the money on head porting.. (for Joe's motor)

The average iron headed bbb, to make pwr your after, has to have around 18-20* of *50 overlap. I am making an assumption here that your budget does not include a hyd roller cam, and those are the flat tappet numbers.. think TA 413 with really good ported heads and some compression, or 290-08H with the average decent set of full port BBB irons.

This means that it's going to idle about 800ish rpm in gear, with a decent lope.

That's fast enough, that with typically clearances in the bottom end, it should hold idle pressure in the 20-30psi range, with hot 30wt oil. With the stock cover your describing. I have built that motor 30 times at least.

I know all these things from experience, so when you ask the question you did, my brain processes the factors, and spits out the answer.

"(Old school build, good stock cover works fine on those.)"


But I realize that I should explain myself a bit, throw out those "known factors" in my head.

Here's the fact:

In reality, the milder your engine combo is, the more you need that TA cover. As Mike said, clearances overall are tighter in the gear pocket, and with a positive displacement pump, the slower you spin it, the less the output, and the harder it is to keep the passages filled, under pressure. That's when the tighter clearances really shine.

Take Eduardo's motor for example.. with that small roller cam, no way I built that with a stock cover. I have them here, and certainly could have, but wouldn't think of it. Been down that highway before.. great running small cam motor, with marginal oil pressure at idle when it's hot out.

Same with Larry's motor.. it's just too mild, and will idle down slow enough be be a concern, without a really good oil pump.

In fact, I have a project here that I am working on now.. I'm in the inspection mode of the bottom end now, but if I find nothing, then the next step to cure it's oil pressure ills will be a TA cover. Has just fine oil pressure at speed, just not at idle, even with thick oil.

I will share the results later this spring.

It's really about refinement.

As I go along here, so 60 plus motors in my "retail" BBB engine building career, what I have found is that we are refining the product now.

Once upon a time, not so long ago, a 500 HP iron street motor , with streetable hyd cam, was a big deal. Not so much any more, even the iron head motors now can benefit from the hyd roller cams, and make that number, in a milder overall package.

The alum head motors are downright tame at 500 HP, as Ed's 448 proves.

Even at 600 HP, like Larry's, they are not that wild and hairy. Not like they used to be.

More refined.

And mild motors idle down nice, and need good tight clearance oil pumps.

As Steve Harvey used to say..

"That's the rest of the story"

JW

 

The other thing I wondered about was the high volume pump kit. its common knowledge its not recommended. The extra 1/4" wipes the front cam bearing and gear out. well what if that set was machined so the gears and plate were an 1/8" extra? kind of a middle of the road upgrade? any thoughts?

oh FWIW- the new motor will have stage II heads from TA...

Thanks Joe

 

No need for the extra length gears.. a good tight stock gearset/cover will feed oil just fine in virtually all configurations.

If I read your build wrong in regards to Budget, then forgive me.. sounds now like your going to fall into that second catagory of builds, that being a much milder 500 HP build.

In that case, go with the TA cover.

JW

 

I guess the next step is to measure the side clearance. Make sure it's not .010.

I figure worst case scenario I can upgrade to the cover later when the budget rebounds. Unless the side clearance is loose as a goose.