This thread, and post itself may wind up rather long, and have a fair bit of tech as well. Consider yourself warned, and advised. I'll try to keep this as unbiased as I can. Back in January I got in on the tail end of a group buy from UMI Performance, and bought upper and lower A-arms, with 0.9" extended upper ball joints, and 0.500 lower ball joints. I told the person I talked to that I wasn't looking to burn corners, but wanted to get rid of the HORRID body roll I would get on general use on sweeping transition ramps. I was told the above package would be perfect and would fit my 64 Skylark. As frequently happens to us all, I got sidetracked on other projects, and selecting springs, etc. Which brings us up to... About 2 months ago. I've been in no hurry to get the car back on the road, so taking my time and doing things when the urge strikes. About 2 months ago I found the passenger's side upper control arm hit the frame mount, and noticed on the instructions (no I didn't read them before hand) a note that early A-bodies may require a small amount of grinding on the forward edge of that mount. Nobody mentioned this on the phone, as I really don't want to mess with the factory parts. I'm trying to keep it so I can simply unbolt any upgrades and put the old parts on to bring it back to factory spec. When I called, I was told that my frame must be bent because my mount will need to have that front portion (a gusset, really) removed, and a new one welded on further aft, to clear the new A-arm. This vehicle was a daily driver, and has definitely been bent several times over the years, I believe twice in the front. My Dad bought 'her' new, so I know the entire history of the car. In order for the frame to be bent to cause the amount of interference I have, it would have to be severely buckled in a very short section and would be extremely obvious. It's my firm belief based off the history that the frame isn't bent at all. Those of you who know the front upper A-arm mount can perhaps see what I'm talking about in your head. If questioned, I'll try to explain better and/or add a picture. I have also found an issue with the driver's side lower A-arm. The spring is rubbing on the bump stop bracket on the bottom of the frame. When I initially brought this to UMI's attention, I was told again that my frame must be bent. I took both springs out to make sure they were identical, which they are, so there isn't a driver's and passenger's spring. I initially keyed the spring to the A-arm, and found the rubbing problem. I tried re-keying the spring to the frame, and it still rubs, but less hard(takes less prying to get it off the bracket). I reinstalled the factory lower control arm and PRESTO, I have clearance! When I contacted UMI again to tell them this, their A-body expert requested I send a picture, which I did. His response was that he checked their 66 and a customer's car, and my 64 has extra large bump stop brackets, and they may require an 'adjustment.' Considering they're welded to the frame, I read this as: Whack it with a hammer. It seems to me (personal opinion) that they're suggestion I fit my frame/car to their part, which seems backward. Unfortunately I removed the stock A-arm to compare it to the UMI, before I thought about measuring clearance. By eyeball it looked to be the same as the passenger side with the UMI lower A-arm, which I have now measured. I used a drill bit and it's close, only 0.100" (just under 1/8") between the bump stop frame bracket, and the spring, but there IS clearance, unlike the UMI driver's side. Are the brackets bigger on a 64? I don't know, but if they are, they're merely showing a small error in geometry/fitment of the UMI A-arm that becomes apparent because of the tighter clearance. I will say the UMI stuff looks to be very well made. The welds look good, and they look to be extremely strong. The UMI spring pockets have a much taller... notch? That the spring end can butt up against (if that's what it's for) compared to the stock ones that are much smaller. This may be a contributing factor on the driver's side, since it sits on the aft end of the spring pocket. I'm figuring on removing that and putting it back on the car to see if it gains the clearance I need. Barring the fitment issue, I actually prefer the UMI spring pocket over the factory design, as it supports the spring better on that first wrap/coil. Also of note is the upper ball joint spits out the dust shield because of the extreme angle of the joint at full droop. UMI's response to this was that some customers have the same problem, and they opted to use a piece of hose to fill the gap and keep the boot in place. That's about it for now, I'll post more as I come by further information, or think of something I may have missed up to this point. Chris
I have a 65 Skylark with Ebay Chinese upper and lower tubular A-arms and I have not had any problems with them. I am using the stock springs. It did take two of us to install them though. Would a big persuader help? I find quite often with aftermarker parts a "little adjustment" is in order to make them fit.
I have a 70 and bolted the cheap ebay uppers and lowers on my car with only the gas shocks causing me issues due to being larger and the hole was a tad skinny on the bottom of the lower arm. I also would have put 90 degree grease fittings on the frame side lowers as they are pretty tough to get to once mounted. A picture is worth a thousand word.
I already have pics of the driver's side, and plan on taking pics of the passenger's side today. It's been several years since I posted pics online, and at that point I was using the free webspace with our Verizon account to host them. Verizon's free webspace has since gone the way of the dinosaur, could someone recommend a free hosting site that I can link to? Even if this website has it's own hosting/uploads, I'd still appreciate the help for the Jeep website I'm on. Thanks in advance, Chris
OK, Photobucket account procured and driver's side pics uploaded. I'll take passenger's side pics later today or tomorrow. I moved the pictures in photobucket into a folder and... Broke my links. Is there a way to edit the old (now broken) links in a post you've already made?
When I had SPC arms on my car, I had to grind a good bit of the front of the A-arm mounting gusset away to get them to fit. About your links, you should be able to edit the post and insert the corrected links.
I looked at your pic and all I can say is OUCH! Why do people make parts for our cars then expect us to alter the car to fit their part? Why not make it a 1/4 or 1/2" longer so it fits all the A-bodies? As much as I don't like the idea of altering the frame in any way, shape, or form, I'm thinking I may be able to bend that portion in and at least preserve the majority of it, if not all, of that portion of the mount. Either that, or I'll grind the A-frame until it clears, then weld in a piece of plate. Chris
Long since gone and I confirmed they were installed correctly. The trouble was I was trying to get a lot of positive caster and that required the back arm to be shortened and the front arm to be lengthened and then adjusted for camber. On a lowered, pro-touring car they might have worked out better but on a stock height car, they weren't the ticket. The lack of a droop stop bothered me as well.
I finally got off my lazy bottom and uploaded a pic of the passenger's side upper arm interference. I've finished modifying that arm and have a couple of pics that show the area I removed. The arm is finished, I just have to take pics of it before installation. One down... Three to go. Chris
Ouch! That can't be the proper arms for that model! That's a lot of compromised tubing and I would not want to run that on my car. The proper arms should have definite arch to them, not be nearly flat like that. They'll never work properly I'm afraid.
I did a bit of measuring for droop. Measurements were taken from the ball joint cotter key hole, to the shop floor. Stock WITH bump stop snubber: 23 3/16 UMI withOUT any kind of bump stop: 22 3/4 So I can have a bump stop that will limit the down travel by 7/16 to make them equal. Also, the UMI lowers are 1/2" longer, which in this case would allow an additional 1/2" of travel. I think I'll split the travel between compression and droop, which gives me 11/16" at the ball joint. We'll see what I come up with, be it cutting down the nice, new UMI snubber, or who knows. Perhaps I'll attach the snubber to the UMP plate and point it down toward the spring housing. The UMI control arm doesn't have as much drop as the stock one, but it's not flat either, so I included a side view pic. I know you're not supposed to grind welds, but I think these will do the job.
Today I removed the driver's side lower A-arm spring bucket... spring stop? That piece that ramps the first coil of the spring over the top of the next coil, no idea what you call it since it's not a bump stop or locator. Aaaanyway, it was causing the spring to deflect, being pushed forward (I had previously checked with a straight edge, and there was a slight fore/aft bow to the spring). After removing it and installing the spring yet again, I have just under 0.100 clearance on the bump stop bracket, and zero detectible fore/aft bow. In theory I should remove that same piece from the passenger's side, but it just barely clears, and removing it would cause the spring to be shoved forward, not a good thing. Next up, paint touch up on this part, and clearancing the driver's side upper. I think I finally got this under control and can proceed to what was supposed to be the hard part... Replumbing the solid lines. Speaking of which, is it necessary to change out the front solid brake lines to the next size up(metric?)? Does it gain anything, or am I just as well off having hybrid flex lines made to go from the stock lines to the new disks? Thanks in advance and thanks for reading my ramblings this far. Chris
Update: I moved the compression bump stops from the frame to the upper A-arms. Got the shocks that UMI told me would fit, extended so they DO fit. And in the process of checking to make 100% sure the shocks fit correctly with my mods, found out the upper ball joint is out of limits and binding about 1" before it hits the compression bump stop. The BJ needs to point further forward in order to have enough travel. I always thought the joints have the same travel/sweep fore/aft as well as in/out. IE: it will tilt say 30* over the entire 360* but these don't. After having done all the mods, and the initial purchase price, I'm once again thinking of tossing the whole affair and starting from scratch!!! I'll call UMI on Monday and see if they've encounter THIS problem before, and if they have a fix. Anybody have thoughts/ideas on how to fix this newest problem? Anybody??? Other than scrap the UMI stuff? Thanks for listening! Chris
Wow, you have a lot more patience that I would with this. What ball joint are you using? I can't imagine a ball joint without more range of motion than that at full droop. It can't be the proper arm. It must be built for something else, like a tall spindle or B-body spindle conversion.
The ball joints are the extended ones that UMI sells with their arms. 0.9" longer top, and 0.5" longer bottom. Chris
I believe UMI has quit selling the .9" taller ball joints in the non-adjustable arms. I'm not sure what exactly happened to cause this, but it very well may be that a few people were running into the same sort of problems you're having. Now you can only get the .9" taller ball joints in the fully adjustable (similar to SPC) upper control arm. The lower arm has remained unchanged.
I talked to Ramey at UMI, their A-body expert, and he suggested I either run it as-is with binding ball joints (!?!) or shim the ball joint as their testers do with pre-production items. So I shimmed... With 4 washers. I didn't measure it, but it tilts the BJ A *LOT*. I did a quick check with an electronic level and without shimming the upper arm, I have a bit over 5* of castor (relative to the frame). So I think what I'm going to do is finish my alterations of the A-arms. Get the drivetrain installed. Have it aligned. Take the front end back apart, and re-shim the upper ball joints so they don't bind. Then put it all back together. I don't think the shims on the ball joints will make enough difference to change the alignment specs enough to worry about. I went to UMI's website, and they still show the .9 uppers, no idea if you can still purchase them. I was VERY surprised it was suggested I run with binding ball joints, it seems like a really good way to get machinery bent and/or people hurt if it fails.
