Welds and bolts Vs Gluing panels on, science project.

Well, the projects were judged today by some out of town science guy and out of 60 kids he came in second! This was a BIG deal for him. He doesn't usually get very good grades and struggles a lot with school so this was a shot in the arm.

Brian

 

2nd is GREAT !!!!


:TU: :TU: :TU: :TU: to that young man ....keep up the good work ..

 

Congrat's!!!! Well done!

- Bill

 

what a kick ass science project. mine were always incredibly lame. very interested. Can you post a link to the adhesive? Thanks!:gp:

 

2nd Place! Great job. I always loved the science fair. I still have my display from my 8th grade one. Make sure you save the stuff for him.

 

The Lotus Elise has a glued aluminum frame..

 

Thanks! I can't find a single thing on this adhesive on the net. The thing is, Winzer is a wholesale supply company. They don't sell to the general public, only thru salesmen at their accounts like the shop I work at.

Our saleman told me he is going to have a web site set up soon, but nothing right now.

There are many other brands of similar products, 3M # 08115 is one. Fusor, SEM, and many others offer panel bonding adhesives.

Brian

 

Yep, The Lotus Elise has a largely bonded FRAME. In a little search to find more info, I found some interesting stuff. A lot of these cars use a small amount of rivets or welds in conjuction with the bonding. But many structual parts are totally bonded in.



The Lotus Elise is a roadster conceived in early 1994 and released in September 1996 by the English manufacturer Lotus Cars. The car has a hand-finished fiberglass body shell atop its aluminium extrusion and bonded frame that provides a rigid platform for the suspension, while keeping weight and production costs to a minimum. The Elise was named after then Lotus' chairman Romano Artioli's granddaughter, "Elisa".





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elise



"Unlike McLaren F1, Ferrari F50's rear suspensions are directly bonded to the engine / gearbox assembly. This means the engine becomes the stressed member which supports the load from rear axle. Then, the whole engine / gearbox / rear suspensions structure is bonded into the carbon fiber chassis through light alloy. This is a first for a road car. "



Lotus's technology was originated by its supplier, Hydro Aluminium of Denmark. Hydro discovered that aluminium extrusion can be bonded by epoxy resin (glue) if it is adequately prepared by a special chemical in the bonding surface. Surprisingly, glue can bond the sections together strongly and reliably. Most important, the aluminium extruded sections can be made much thinner than traditional welding technique. Why ? because welded joints are weak, so the thickness of material should be increased throughout a member just to make a joint strong enough. Therefore Elise's chassis could be lighter yet stiffer.



http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/chassis/tech_chassis2.htm

 

Fine wooden furniture is still glued

 

Someone out there has my old 71 GS that has the rear quarters glued on by a Buick dealer body shop

 

I read one of the posts regarding the BMW 5 series. The rails and front structure are bonded and riveted (lots of rivets) especially to the steel firewall.

Dave

 

There are rivets as well as bonding holding the aluminum pieces to the metal ones on that 5 series. HOWEVER, on a frame splice repair, where you are putting say, a new front frame horn on that BMW 5 Series, you don't use ANYTHING but "glue"! You cut the frame horn off, you insert into it a sleave that slathered with adhesive has a threaded hole in it. You then slide the new frame horn onto the sleave covered with adhesive and put a bolt thru the top into the sleave. You tighten the bolt up and it acts like a "moly bolt" in your dry wall spreading the sleave out tight. You then remove the bolt and the adhesive holds your new frame horn on!

This is right out of BMW bulletin, loosely translated of course.

Brian

 

One time only then should another collision happen in the same area throw the whole shootin' match away. We have a 5 series here now with this exact problem. Looks we'll be totalling an '07 5series as it now needs 2 rails. Being certified for this type of repair is costly and we are seemingly always a $25k repair or more and always on fixtures or border-line total loss.

Dave

 

I'm with you Dave. But any second repair on the same componant is going to necessitate "throwing the whole shooting match away". A rad support that is pulled and repaired with a tie bar welded in, is tossed in the garbage and the whole assy replaced the next time it it is hit.

The thing is, does the boned together frame rail "react" the same in another accident as far as the absorbing of energy? Personally, I could care less if my family car is tossed in the trash after an accident, did it protect me and my family? If the bonding of that rail performs the same in an accident, then it did its job.

Total, is just a number, that is all it is. It has NOTHING what so ever to do with "how much" damage, or how "badly" a car is damaged. It is all about cost of repair to actual cash value ratio. That is all there is to it. We have "totaled" something like a 2001 Ford Escort with $2000 damage in about two square feet of area. While we have gotten paid $40,000 to repair a Lexus that a tree fell on, replacing the roof, all the windows, seats, quarter panel, etc. It is just a "number", that is all a "total loss" is.

If the car needs two frame rails, and replacing those two frame rails along with all the other componants and removing and reinstalling componants for access costs more than what ever that particular insurance company deems is the breaking point, then it is a total. If that very same car was a year newer or a "series" higher like a 7 series as opposed to a 5, the car gets repaired. Same exact damage, different Actual Cash Value (ACV).

Brian