Do you ever sit and wonder what the future hold's? When will these insane Musclecar prices Zenith? Are they already slowing down? In 20-30 years will we see our Grandchildren advertising a Hemi Cuda Convert for month's hoping to snag a buyer for $5,500 :eek2: When will the cold reality sink in that we are spending fortunes on car's that we may not be able to afford to drive in the near future? Maybe they won't hold their values and be the "investments" that alot of people are thinking they'll be? I don't know how crazy I am about the 2015 Pure Stock Hydrogen Drags B.T.W. When restoring your American Made Musclecar, please insist on buying ONLY American Made part's, if and when it's possible. Everytime you by Made in U.S.A., you increase the chance of saving some American job's, quite possibly and eventually your own. :Smarty: Wanna see how high Fuel prices can go?Keep buying made in China! Who do you think we're bidding against for a barrell of crude?? uzzled: Trying to liven thing up around here :bglasses:
Tom, between you and me I'm getting rather pissed at all the checkbook cars running because their owners have more money than brains. I always thought the idea was to build you car, work on your car, show your car, DRIVE your car... You see so many guys at shows, ask them a simple question and they don't know....somebody else built it for em and I see no point in that. The investors are ruining our hobby, which I can barely afford anymore due to all the rising prices abnd speculators. later Tim Owned a GS before it was cool to do so.
Guys, There should be room (read that acceptance) for people who don't work on the cars anymore for various reasons but still have a passion. I busted plenty of knuckles back when these cars were on their first maintenance cycle, but now I don't have the tools, workspace, and time to do much with them anymore besides the most cursory stuff. So someone else gets paid sometimes to do the real "work". That seems to fit in with Tom's second point for employing other Americans as a good thing. The main problem most of us have in this category is finding someone we can trust who will do a quality job at a fair price and get it done in less than a month of Sundays. As for the Model T reference... I had a friend in High School in 1970 that had a 1931 Model A. At the time, I thought it was ancient. Meanwhile at the same time I had a 1953 Dodge Coronet. I thought it was pretty darned old and out of style but I liked being different even then (the only cooler 50s car on the High School lot in my opinion was a '55 Pontiac Chieftan). Do the math. The Model A was 39 years old, same as a 1966 car now. The Dodge was 17, same as an 87-88. Today I don't think of a '66GS as ancient, it's a classic. And as for my 87 GN, heck I still think of it as like a new car. I wonder if others are suffering from the same time warping as I am.
I'm not going to tell someone that they should turn the wrench or not let their car sit in the garage. People have the right to do what they want with their cars. The fact that you do what works for you doesn't mean others should do the same thing. If people want to bitch and moan about young people not being into musclecars, perhaps some people should get rid of the air of exclusivity that exists in the hobby. It's a big tent for everyone. That being said, I can't wait for the Boomers to drop like flies so I can get the cars that I want. :laugh:
I think the reason your GN feels new is that not a whole lot has changed in the automotive field in the last 18 years or so. Most of the cars from the late 80's were comfortable, fuel injected, had plush interiors etc. Cars seemed to change radically in the span of 18 years before that. In 1986 I had my first car-a 1970 Sklyark (the one in my avatar) and it seemed really old to me. It was 16 years old. If I had a 16 year old car today it wouldn't seem quite so old. Todd
Race gas is STILL around $4 a gallon Very true. Notice how organizations like Goodguys promote the under 21 crowd with a special class and NHRA has Jr Dragster to start them drag racing young. All to perpetuate those groups. Very true as well. I can think of a couple of cars that were virtually unavailable in the '80's, that are in every Auto Swapper now. Lastly, look for not just US made, but Canada and Mexico. Their economies are important to us also. :TU: Plus they are not Communist nuclear powers. :laugh:
I think the difference is you guys have some history with the machines and some passion (and probably know a thing or two about your cars). Guys are just buying up cars on speculation as investments-as was the topic of this discussion- and I know many many of the younger guys I know have given up getting an older car because they can't go to a show and compete with $100,000.00 cars put together by a professional shop. I didn't think that is what the hobby was about. later Tim
the 'can't compete with a $100,000 car' is why I love the Pure Stock drags......I have a nice car, but it's a vette and will always be in a show class against over restored 'original valve stem cap' cars............
Personally, I hold the opinion that it's the hobbyist that is driving the prices up. It's really easy to blame speculators. Who are they? Are they people like you and me with the liquidity to buy cars on the cheap and try to flip them? Are they dealers? Certainly they're not the rich who are trying to get into the hobby as a passing fancy, are they? If it was any other hobby, people wouldn't be complaining. If I am interested in Tiffany glass, I know I'm not going to be able to afford it, and I won't bemoan that fact. That still doesn't drive me away from being interested in it. Somehow, somewhere, people got the idea that cars being priced out of their reach is akin to the loss of a right, and it is not. Here in NYC, many of the younger residents complain about gentrification. A Starbucks recently moved into the Lower East Side, which is a run-down area inhabited by artists and others looking for lower rent. Boutique stores and bars have popped up, giving the neighborhood its own flavor. Now people are complaining that the neighborhood is dead, and they want to try to maintain its flavor (flava is from Brooklyn, mind you!) But what these folks are missing is that this character developed from necessity, so if prices go up and push the regular folk out, the artists will go somewhere else and develop the character of a neighborhood that sorely needs it. What does this have to do with the musclecar hobby? It's all evolution, and there's nothing you can do about it. Understand it for what it is, and respect it for what it is. It always ends up being good in the end.
Well said. I guess its just sad that the cars I (we) really enjoy and love are climbing out of my (or your) reach (I'd love to have a real 70 GSX or Stage 1 GS ragtop). I define speculators as people who buy the cars for their (potential) money value, while hobbyists are the guys who love them and enjoy them as they were meant to be... I'm hoping for the day the values drop, although it probably won't happen. later Tim
It will happen Nobody thought the prices would ever go back down in the mid 80's either, but they did somewhat, and if the U.S.A. go's into a recession sometime in the future, they will go back down again somewhat, they'll have to unless the wealthy "speculators" continue to purchase them at inflated prices, while the rest of us poor folk enjoy our Catsup and Cracker sandwiches :ball:
I am just happy that things haven't completely gotten out of hand with ALL of the muscle cars, yet. I just got our Skylark for about $8000. I couldn't have touched a Chevelle convertible around here for that price. Double that maybe. Personally, I expect that the prices will continue to escalate, especially with the new interest in American Muscle that is going around. I work with a lot of younger people ( I'm Air Force) who have been into imports and more and more are looking at American cars. That leads them into the classics. This is just going to make things more expensive. Just remember, these are cars are getting rarer and rarer. They aren't being built anymore (of course ) and with some being wrecked just about everyday.
Actually, the cars are becoming less and less rare. More cars are restored now than they were 15 years ago. Plus, more and more cars are popping up. Today is the best time to be a musclecar fan since the cars were new.
I have to agree with that, Diego. I see more cars and events now than ever. Woodward doesn't do it for me anymore. Pure Stock is the greatest.
There is a lot of that. Stories of folks at Barret Jackson all cocktailed up not wanting to lose. Almost like a high stakes poker game. I have seen a lot of folks outside of auctions who spent huge money on junk not know a thing about it except it is rare and worth a lot. You can see it happen quite a bit if you are exposed to that crowd. A good example of this in the auto hobby is the "Rat Rod" movement. Folks couldn't afford the high dollar billet rods so they went back to basics. :TU: Evolution? Don't you mean it's an intelligent design? :laugh: :laugh:
We may be seeing more of these cars out now since people are restoring them but with demo derbies and wrecks the number of available cars is decreasing. The day of finding a restorable car in someones barn and getting it relatively cheap is about gone. At least around where I live. You do still hear those stories but I don't see it as much. So, as more of our cars get restored or modified it will be harder for someone to find one to start as a project. And they will get more expensive as time goes on. I do agree that this is a great time to be a muscle car fan. So many products are available for restoration and that list just keeps growing. Remember, I am talking about what I see where I live. You may be much luckier in what's available. Heck, I saw a rusted 68 Camaro RS Convertible with no engine, tranny, interior, etc sell for $5000. What I see as a possibility of dropping the prices and values on classic muscle and pony cars is the reproduction bodies. There is already a 69 Camaro body on the market and a 67 is about ready for production. That was one of the things that hurt the values of the model T's. They produced a fiberglass body to replicate the car. These new Camaro bodies are all steel. It will be interesting to see what happens to Camaro prices now that someone can build a complete car without ever having one original piece.
But who's to say that these people are the ones causing the high prices? Who's to say these people are in it for the investment? Truth be told, I've been to a few of these auctions and there are people like that. There are also 100% car guys as well. Just because people have money doesn't preclude them from owning a cool car. Or, if you can't afford a musclecar, what's keeping people from getting Catalinas and putting 455s in them? Or even getting just a regular Monaco and having some fun with its 383? :laugh: I'd have to go with the former! :grin:
Ever driven a Model T? I have, many of them many times, (but not reccently). Hard to compare that to driving these muscle cars. These are fun, those were wierd and unsafe to drive on the road with regular traffic. These muscle cars are just expensive and risky to drive in regular traffic. I think the ratrod concept is really great. There's some very interesting cars that otherwise would be scrapped out.
15 to 20 i'd give'em 15 to 20 years before they start coming down,remember the 55-57 chevies,theyve started their downward trend,i hope its sooner rather than later,im almost priced-out of the hobby.
Let's see.......when I first met Kirk he had a 396 Nova, then a Trans Am, then a 6 Pack 'Cuda followed by a Max Wedge now a mystery car...... You might have to actually hang onto one of these cars! :laugh: :laugh: I know we all have a touch of Milleritis, more commonly known as Adult ADD. :laugh:
