why do modern engines makes so much power from relatively small cubic inches?

Its funny being a big block Ford guy in general, I feel like the Buicks are finally coming into their own now. I was there for the 385 series Ford's (429/460) infancy into the performance world, and now they can be built to make waaaaaaay more power and torque than a BBC, for very similar money. I've always said the BBB was the best gm engine ever made (the Caddy 472/500 a damn close second), all I can say is.....wait. As painful as the next few years will be, just wait. The specialty shops will make bbbs that blow people's minds, then the mainstreams like edelbrock, AFR, trickflow etc. will see what these engines can do and how many people want/need the parts, then it'll be worth it to them. Same thing happened with the Ford, it'll happen to the Buick. Only thing holding the Buick back is the relative lack of production run for the engine. The Ford was made from 68-97 in production vehicles, and it is still made in the aftermarket. The Buicks are every bit as good, the parts will/should come.

 

I have a friend who has a Jon Kaase BBF in a Ford street rod--it's a thing of beauty, makes crazy power, and is driven everywhere.

Patrick

 

This is an odd argument. Take a factory fresh 70 stage 1 car, add 140 horse and then drag race it for 36,000 miles. how much of the drivetrain would hold up and be stock at the end of it? the answer is hardly any of it.

do the same with 800 horse. nothing would survive. again race it for 36000 miles..

 

New Car fast for less money if you can build it right. I will always pull for the under dog.

My issue would be if I had 70 grand to blow would I really spend it on a new muscle car, or Build 2 really wicked Old School muscle cars.

Also its the David vs Goliath scenario. If you hang with or best a new muscle care with an old Buick people take notice. Even if you lose by a little your still unexpected. Gearing is a factor as well. Mt car is geared for stupid acceleration not gas mileage. So a new muscle car will definitely have a much higher top end but what about stop light to stop light?

 

And to add to that the Dodge Demon the car that seems to have a lot of people talking has an MSRP of 85k, I'm sure it costs much more to get one. Paying for the convenience of factory awesomeness, just to high for me even at that level. I would still have to spend 85k on different cars.

 

Gots a buddy that bought a Hellcat pre order before they were on the showroom floor. cars fully loaded he paid over 70K. 707 HP. I built the engine in the Regal for around 15K (build and rebuild). Im pushing nearly as much HP and more Tq. However I cannot drive my car to the track with tunes and A/C. He challenged me to race but always is to busy to go when I mention it. I think Id smoke him, at least on the first 1/2 of the track.

 

Briz,

You MUST do this. And, have someone shooting video so you can post it.

 

Yes the newer cars (last 20 years) are awesome until you have to work on them. I won't agree with the statement you will get more miles out of them at any said horsepower level than old iron, they break just as often when hammered on. That said in stock form they will go farther with fewer tune ups. But those tune ups are far more complicated and take far more time.

All in all I would bet the amount of time invested in old vs new iron to go to 100,000 miles is equal... But it is so much easier and less complicated and actually far more fun to work on old vehicles. Pulling the engine to replace header gaskets is insanity.

Lastly my biggest pet peeve with newer vehicles is the nanny issues. I don't need a car to "Go Ding, Ding, Ding" when the windshield washer fluid is low or the door is ajar or a tire is low or a headlight/tail light/turn signal is out. I maintain my vehicles.

I don't need traction control or anti-lock brakes (I know how to drive and don't race when the road is slippery).

Had a seat belt retractor fault come up and had to listen to the car ding from Houston TX to Gainesville FL, that's just horsepoopy... Cost $2300 to fix!!!! Insane!!!!!

Phasing out vehicles built after 1996....

Don't need over 600 hp on the street as you can't use it anyway and I can make that easily with a BBB or BBF

Mikey

 

Everything on new vehicles breaks easier than on old, at least from what I can see. My parent's 2012 LaCrosse blew a water pump at 42k, plus a few electronic gizmos to boot. It has the 3.6l VVT V6, so it has lots of pep, but I still prefer my 50 year-old iron.

Parts from cars today are all sourced from PRC...and there is not a lot to be done about it. Even NAPA dealers have China sources for their high-end parts. The counterfeit IC electronics are a big problem which has yet to be resolved.

 

I know in many cases you guys are correct that new cars break easily when power is added but I've also seen many, many examples of newer cars taking beatings that our old cars can't handle.

Like the guy I know that has a C6 Corvette (it's not a Z06) but he built a really nice stoker LS-engine (I think it's 406 or 408 now) and added a huge nitrous kit and an after market clutch. The 6-speed manual transmission and rearend are 100% stock. The car has gone 9.50s and 150 mph in the 1/4. He beat son this car with no cares about breakage. He's leaves the line at 5k+ and is on the bottle at the same time. The stock 6-speed and rearend end have been receiving this abuse for a couple of years now. When it does finally break it will be because of the violent wheel hop problem he sometimes experiences.

Another friend has a 2009 Cadillac CTS-V 4-door sedan. It is stock except for ported heads, aftermarket cam, cold airbox, headers, partial exhaust (front section) and a dyno tune (the car made 620 hp to the rear tires). It weighed 4,515 lbs on the scales at Beech Bend recently with the driver in the car. With a set of aluminum rims so he can run 15" drag radials the car runs easy 10.50s at 131 mph with 60' times in the 1.50s. The car is almost his daily driver as he drives it to work a couple days each week (it's sitting in the work parking lot right now) and despite being raced weekly, it has never broken anything. The drivetrain in this car is obviously taking a lot of power to move a 4,515 pound car to 131 in the 1/4 mile but it never broken anything.

 

just look at the 2011-2014 5.0 Mustangs with 6 speed auto, guys are bolting on a blower or turbo and making in excess of 600 rwhp and the stock untouched transmissions and rear ends are holding up just fine.

 

That's why you need one late model muscle car and several vintage cars. Both are fun to drive but for different reasons.

 

Not that I don't believe but my neighbor had one and every time he took it to the track had to be towed home. Rear end, axle half shafts and computer.

 

I'm just sharing what I personally witness. I'm consistently amazed at the abuse these 2 cars withstand. The Corvette will certainly break someone eventually because the owner just keeps adding more and more power because he's just not satisfied with 9.50s @ 150 in a true street car. I'm not sure what will satisfy him My friend with Caddy seems to be content (at least for now) with 10.50s @ 131 with his luxury sedan.

 

You gotta do this