The official website is up disclosing some facts about R-134 refrigerant. Let it be known that I am not in any way involved in the creation of this. Guys, this topic became very heated in a previous thread, and I do not wish to argue with anybody about this subject, I only posted the link here to share with everyone. Click here: http://www.deadly134.com
That explains alot ! I had a discusion with an individual about 2 weeks ago regarding this subject. "We had talked about the fact that 134a is odor less and very explosive along with other manufaturers refrigerants". which is written on the can in fine print. So i did a little digging and found a product that offers better cooling, and is 32% more efficent than R-12. It is endorsed by Greenpeace and will not harm your A/C components or the Ozone. The name of the product is called : "MacFreeze" it also compatiple with your old R-12 systems and doesn't require and oil change to work. Also with it being more efficent there will less wear and tear on your system. Food for thought !!!!!! Joe thanks for posting this. Just think you could be driving along and never notice your A/C is leaking and you decide to have a smoke. also more food for thought. You A/C tech's should be more aware of this hazzard.
Thanks for bringing this uneasy topic back into the mainstream. I DID do a 134a conversion on my Boat a couple of years ago, but because the A/C switch is broken, I haven't run it since. I think I'll be looking to get it recharged with someting. I took a quick peek at the MacFreeze stuff... (www.macfreeze.com) and it looks just as bad as the SUVA (134a)... Another moral/ethical headache to ponder! -- Larry '70 Electra Convertible
Macfreeze is a blend..........as is freeze 12, and all the others claiming to be an R-12 substitute.......usually about 80% R-134. The other 20% is a refrigerant that will mix with mineral oil so it will work as an R-12 substitute. At the risk of starting another arguement let me state that to the best of my knowlege the only non-blended refrigerant that will replace R-12 and mix with mineral oil is propane based HC-12a (Duracool)........yes, it is propane based.........before anybody says "oh my God, that's flammable" keep in mind you have 25 gallons of gasoline in your fuel tank, and breathing propane will not stop your heart. Unfortunately, our US EPA could not care less about us guys with antique cars designed for R-12 so it is only legal for use in automobiles in Canada and Europe. The legality of HC-12a in the US is open to much debate for which I do not care to discuss, however I use it in mine with no problems and I have not gone to prison yet. :grin: It is legal here for use in machinery.........technically, my car is machinery.uzzled: :bglasses:
Wouldn't there be a greater incidence of cars blowing up? Especially since the early 1990s? Just a question from a curious bystander.
What concerns me was the discussion about R-134a causing corrosion of the evaporator and condensor cores...if this is true, (big IF) it would slowly rot our A/C systems away. I REALLY don't feel comfortable with pressurized propane in the passanger compartment. Yes, there's a 26 gallon tank of gas, but it's outside of the car. Remember the OLDER trucks with the gas tank behind the seat? Scary to me. Was R-12 explosive/flammable? I don't believe so. -- Larry
MacFreeze, Envirosafe, Red Tek, Glaicer Gold and Maxifridge are all copy cats of HC12a that are all canned in Pekin IL by Randy Price. He used to can for Duracool out of Canada until he pulled some dirty tricks and Duracool cancelled the contract. Then he began producing his own propellant and called it a refrigerant. He has no way of blending at his location. If you will look at the cans you will see that they are labeled with an adhesive label. Most of these are labeled because the minimum order for silk screened cans is 10,000 and he doesn't produce enough of each one to make it worthwhile. It's amazing to me that people are afraid of 12 to 18 oz. of a product that has some propane in it, but they are not afraid of a 5 gallon tank of pure propane on their porch under their gas grill or a 300 gallon tank sitting beside their house that they use to heat and cook with. Most people do not realize that a 14 oz can of hairspray is much more dangerous than our product. It just makes me wonder what ever happened to common sense. R12 was not explosive, but it does burn and it will turn into phosgene gas which is a nerve gas. In Canada it is acceptable to carry up to a 20 lb tank of propane in private aircraft. Our product, HC12a, is the only refrigerant that can be sold in the small cans. When I say our product I mean the only patented hydrocarbon refrigerant. Charles Fox
Charles, Thanks for the background info. I'm still very concened about refirgerants in general. Let's not look at legal issues. What was/is the best (leaning towards human safety) refrigerant for automotive use? If it's worth $1,000 to put R-12 back in my system...I better start saving for it now! For the record, I don't have a gas grill or a propane tank for my furnace. -- Larry
Unwarranted fear. I am an HVAC tech. I have been since 1987. Just today I used a torch to replace a combonent on a 400 ton water chiller. The system had 134a in it and was just recovered. Many times even after recovery there is a little gas evaporating out of the oil while we are working. I can gaurantee that 134a will not explode or even flare up under any circumstances I or any of the dozens of others I know have seen. I like 12 better myself. It takes less HP to get the same job done. Also the r12 oil was easier to work with. But there is no reason to scare people about 134a.
