. A fellow Pontiac enthusiast provided me with links to a Popular Hot Rodding article from February of 1969. It compares all the small blocks for that year and makes for some really interesting reading. I thought it would be nice to share it here with all my "small displacement" friends. :grin: Enjoy... and let the debates begin :spank: : PHR Cover PHR p.44 PHR p.45 PHR p.46 PHR p.47 PHR p.48 PHR p.49 PHR p.97
RDL, I was going to let you know that the Hallmark Christmas car is the '69 Firebird Convertable 400 painted in the Dave H. hue of color! Run out real quick and get your car today! Don't ask me how I found myself in the Hallmark store! :blast: This hijacked thread now will return to the regular posted topic! ou:
Thanks Rusty, I just came from the Hallmark store (... don't ask me why I was in there :blast: ) and I didn't notice the car. Is there a chance someone could post a picture (you know, without totally hijacking the thread)? :TU:
Ask and ye shall recieve! '68 Firebird My bad, rdl, but it is a '68. Still close enough for you to scoop up a hand full of them for yourself and get 10 of them as Christmas gifts. :3gears:
Does the car in the artists rendering have 20's on it? :laugh: To make it a real hijack it must be Olds related.....so here goes Is the color like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Olds...582814776QQcategoryZ31865QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I had a '68 Toro...it wasn't a W-34.....and it wasn't Blue....but I know how you feel :laugh: :laugh:
Hmmm, nothing on the Buick 350. Interesting that the W31 engine hp peak was at only 5300rpm. I think daveh would have something to add to that ( like more rpm and more hp :grin: ).
interesting. running the W-31 without the hoses and scoops. come on :blast: of course, I'm just glad I have the hoses and scoops on MY car. :grin: I also noticed the lack of a Buick. And the rest of the article continued on pg 97.
Out of town on a dial up modem at my brothers' place, so will download the entire article and read when I get back home (thanks, Chris and RDL). Life's too short for dial-up even when you retire. Pennsylvania sure is beautiful. All of the first 500 68 W31 Ramrod engines were run on the engineering dyno to verify performance (not just the plant dyno to check for leaks and oil pressure (and set timing) I have the curve from mine somewhere. Had a friend get it from me. Right on the money at 325@ 5600. I hope I can find it when I unpack all my "stuff" in the basement one of these days.
So the Pontiac 350HO was the best engine. The Pontiac 350 they outlined is not 350HO, not with small valves o No:
Yeah, that's the problem with old magazine ads... they're not always reliable. Some of the Pontiac guys I've exchanged notes with figure that PHR got a late '68 model before PMD made the upgrade. The photo is definitely not a '69 motor, if nothing else than because of the heat riser on the exhaust manifold... a manifold that should not even be on a 350 H/O! Also, the comment about those exhaust manifolds not fitting in the Firebird...? Hello? Those are the Firebird Ram Air 400 manifolds! By way of comparison, I'd like to hear from Tom Miller and Jeff Sawruk about their particular examples. Also wouldn 't mind hearing from Dave H and others who have examples of these engines in Pure Stock right now. The chair now recognizes the Honourable Mr. Miller from... :rant:
thanks rdl. :beer I also noticed that Pontiac exhaust manifold and thought the same thing. isn't that the firebird specific manifold :Smarty: o No:
Reading the specs in the article it looks to me like they tested a '68 Pontiac 350 HO. The major differences between a '68 350 HO and a '69 350 HO would be: Camshaft: The 066 cam was used in all '68 HO's. It is basically a mild cam that was used in the "standard" Pontiac 389's and 400's throughout the years. The '69 350 HO used the 744 cam in manual transmission cars, it is pretty wild in a 350 because it's the same camshaft as a 400 manual trans RAM AIR III. Later in the model year Pontiac started using the 068 cam (350 HP 400 stick cam or RAM AIR III Auto) instead of the 744. All automatic 350 HO's used the 067 camshaft. Cylinder heads: '68 350 HO's used the #18 "small valve" heads with a 1.96 intake valve and the 1.66 exhaust valve. '69 350 HO's used the #48 large valve heads (borrowed from the RAM AIR III) with the 2.11" intake valve and the 1.77" exhaust valve. All '68 350 HO's were rated at 320 HP. The '69 350 HO in a Firebird was rated at 325 HP (not to overshadow the 330 HP 400), but in a Tempest it was rated at 330 HP. :Smarty:
Interesting Jeff. All of the literature I have ever seen indicates the 068 was the only cam ever used in the '69 350 H/O w/ 4spd. The 744 (which really would be quite radical in a 350) was only used in early '69 Ram Air III GTO's (and not at all in '69 Firebirds) ... nor in a Custom S if I might add! uzzled: I'm curious what authority you might have that supports what you're claiming? :Smarty: Also, could you please confirm for me if your application has the log manifolds w/ #48 heads. Thanks.
You can find the 744 cam listed as the 350 HO manual trans camshaft in the published AMA specs (Automobile Manufacturers Association). It was used in Manual transmission 350 HO's until some breakpoint midyear. Pontiac switched to the milder 068 cam to limit the quick reving of the engine, once they started to have warranty on 350 HO's and Ram Air III's due to flywheel explosions. Yes, all 350 HO's came with log manifolds. The F-car manifolds are a little different than the A-car manifolds but they're both log style. The manifolds shown in the article are the long branch F-car or big car style. These were never stock on a 350 HO although sometimes I wish they were...... :Brow:
Scanning Article I did not have time to read it yet but while scanning it I noticed that the 340 Mopar shows the manual trans cam which is a '68 only item. I am building a friends small valve '68 350 ho this winter for PS. It definitely has logs. Mark
My goof? I guess to be correct, I should have said the 350 that they outlined is NOT a 1969 350HO. Mark, I sent you a PM :TU:
Mystery photo? Just another comment regarding the article. The photo of the "350 HO" on the dyno is probably just a press photo they decided to use. It is most likely an early '68 Ram Air 400 from a Firebird (not RA II) with a standard air cleaner that Pontiac was testing. The chrome valve covers and air cleaner lid did not come on a 350 HO. Also notice the oil filter adapter is an F-car unit, thus ruling out a 428 HO from a GP or otherwise.
uzzled: uzzled: Nice color......great engine donor......We were down to 8 cars an hour on the Toro line in 1968. Ugly car, 69 was much better looking, 70 was better than that. Newer ones came with anchors and a fog horn. Back to your previously unhijacked post. :bglasses:
Interesting, too, Joe, that the car in the photo doesn't have any W31 badging on it and the tailpipe has that suspicious hanging down look of the standard 350 engine single exhaust tailpipe with a resonator that wasn't on the W31's. They tucked the turndowns up behind the bumper so nicely on the N10 dual exhaust, that I saved the end 12 inch pieces from the original tailpipes on my Ramrod...just in case. Maybe some day.........Doesn't quite get it with the 2 1/2 inch Torque Tech system since they were 2 inchers.
