And, when you consider that two honest-to-goodness experts often disagree on details... it makes it even more challenging. I commend and appreciate those chasing perfection as A) it isn't easy, B) it isn't inexpensive, and C) they are preserving history, but everyone is not after the same thing in our hobby.
Exactly - I was clear if people actually read my OP in that I was nit-picking and didn't want this to be taken as criticism of what is a beautiful car and asked that ppl look at it as if I was going to buy it & tell me what's wrong. It's rare that I see a "done" car that I'd even consider buying but this one stood out so I was curious what everyone thought not to mention that if you're selling a car as "concours" restored and citing GSCA "gold" & AACA awards and asking a price accordingly, you're inviting a nit-picking level critiquing. I'll delete the thread if it offends people. It wasn't meant to. Every site that caters to any particular car does this and is educational, especially for someone considering buying a particular car - I don't see why everyone gets so bent out of shape tbh but I guess it's the nature of social media. We're not allowed to pick apart cars for sale on here so anyone selling their car would be wise to list it here anyway. That said, even if allowed it would be in very poor taste to pick apart someone's car who had it for sale on here or even showed it on here. I've never seen yours but I hope when the time comes for you to sell it that I am in a position to consider it. Whenever I do get another GSX I'd want it to be either a nice survivor or a "done" car like the one I posted. I think there are "other' reasons people have left that would far outnumber having cars picked apart. So the PW are not original. Would that be a deal killer? For me maybe (probably). He volunteered the price: "Asking" $175k
I don't think you'd be selling it as "concours restored" either. That OEM air though.... One of my few true regrets in life was taking apart my old ratty GSX. That was a fun car to drive. I even considered putting it back together "as-is" after the remorse set in but it wouldn't have been the same. It would be, & was in poor taste to pick apart someone's car w/o being asked to. You should post pics. It's a neat car. Had we had a chance to talk at the Nationals, I wouldn't have pointed out a thing about your car. Very neat piece and one that can be driven/enjoyed. I've never had a car done to anywhere near the level of the one linked to. I suppose (& have heard) it's really not all that enjoyable and can see that. As hard as it would be to do, and I hope to do this although w/a car that's not worth nearly as much so maybe (?) will make it easier, would be to do the car to this level, show it a few times, then drive it as if it were a new car in '70.
Dano, is it too late for me to play? I see the wrong rad top cover, 2 hooks missing on the intermediate brake cable, and it's the wrong cable. The spare tire cover is covered with trunk material, and the kicker is the hole for the hold down is an inch too big, which means it just lays there. And...my absolute favorite thing on any car over 100K is the battery topper! The "Legendary" special...they should put a battery with a topper on each side of the rad for bonus points. I see other stuff, too. It is a nice car, and whoever buys it the $ won't matter to them.
What really gets me is like the brake cable. It doesn't matter if you've never restored a Buick before, Cutlass, Chevelle, Monte, GTO...they all have the same parts. A "restorer" should know those parts are missing. Cheap, cheap parts to fix, the way it is now it won't pull evenly on both rear brakes. At least it's an automatic...
I'm going to guess that the headlamp door, hood, fender alignment issue is borne from using a NOS fender without making the corrective operations to make it fit better. I also think the hood had some damage and wasn't repaired properly. The inside radius of the hood feature does not meet the headlamp door / bezel and no amount of adjustment (without repaint) will make that gap parallel. All the other issues are able to be fixed with out surgery. I'm sure the body shop messed around with that corner for a long time. On a restoration of this caliber and on a car of this value it's a good idea to completely assemble the car body before it goes to paint. That said, I'd love to own that ride.
Where my mind got boggled, was when I saw that restorations would include duplicating factory overspray and other boo-boos, in order to be authentic or "original." If factory screw-ups are important to preserve and not fix, then stuff like misaligned doors and fenders shouldn't be corrected, either. Hey, maybe I could pass my badly abused car off as having "a ton of imperfections....just as it came from the factory on the Monday morning production shift at the Fremont plant" and get a high score at the next Concours!
Concours generally doesn’t look for perfect gaps…just “factory tolerances” more or less…but I understand that can be subjective, so just I do my best to align them. There are very few Buicks out there with perfect gaps. It’s rare to find someone who is willing to pay for you to assemble and disassemble the car a half dozen times before you spray a drop of paint on it.
Damn, only half a dozen? You're pretty good. That's why I couldn't do it for a living. I've done stuff that takes an hour (or 3) and say "how do you tell a customer...." Like anything, it's all in the prep work and sheetmetal alignment does take time & even moreso patience. Unfortunately w/paint both prep & paint are big $ but if spending that much on paint, to not spend it on the alignment...?
I was wondering if it was an NOS fender issue but since the fender was high and the gap at the outboard & top of the bezel to the fender are good although that's more often an issue on right side NOS fenders. Didn't think about the poss. of hood damage but you may be correct - Those radii don't match. Maybe the resto pics would tell the story. Adjustment could seemingly make it a lot better but w/o messing w/it who knows. Maybe the shop did the best they could.
To get nice gaps Kleiner used to assembly the body panels on the car loosely, so there was very little stress on any given part. He would tweak the panels until everything was aligned and the panels were just sitting there. Then he would note the shims at each location take everything apart, and then paint it. Mark Reeves basically did the same thing on my 71 GSX. Duane PS, As stated above, we do not look for perfect gaps for the Concours cars, although some of the owners have done it. I have seen where some owners have cut and welded the driver side fender to fix the door gap at the top. We historically have not deducted for this but also do not deduct for factory flaws.
The car in this post is how we often see cars when we judge them for the first time. Once they go thru judging a few times, everything eventually gets fixed. Duane
I have not been following this thread, however I did see the pic showing the alignment of the Driver side fender and the headlight bezel. That is a bit off and a point or two would be deducted for that. Often with these cars, an owner would ask us to pre-judge the cars a few days before the show. This would give the owners some time to fix a bunch of little things and might make the difference between a Bronze and a Silver, or a Gold award. We did this for John Arangio and his Yellow GSX. He worked solid on that car for 3 days and changed a Bronze car to a Gold car…..and when it came back the next year everything was fixed. The really cool thing about John’s car was it took minimal $ to fix and just a bit of time, which he pretty much did himself. Duane
I sent the following questions 3 days ago, and have yet to receive a reply. 1) Was any sheet metal replaced during the restoration? 2) To what degree is the car numbers matching? Engine and trans? Does it have the correct date coded distributor, alternator, starter and carb? 3) Do you know if any rebuilding was performed on the engine, trans and ear end? 4) How much of the car has been replaced with repro parts? Such as glass, seat belts, grill, interior etc. 5) How much are you asking for the car?
They got back to me pretty quickly w/the Wayne Roberts & volunteered the price. I replied immediately asking if they had copies of the GSCA judging sheets (& pointed out PW wasn't orig.) & haven't heard back. You asked much more difficult questions. Maybe they know the people like us who ask questions like this aren't buying? I assume they're looking for the rich guy to walk in, fall in love w/it, not ask too many questions, & write the big check or finance it.
I wonder how many original untouched cars would be judged as incorrect. They weren't building perfect show cars back then
Thing is, I would consider buying it, depending on the replies to my questions, as it is a non-A/C car. I would sell my A/C equipped GSX to purchase a GSX without air.
