O.K. this is my first buick rebuild so I may ask some dumb questions. Got my 455 home from the junk yard and couldn't wait to tear it down and see if it is rebuildable like the man said but wait...can't get the exhaust manifold bolts out (2 that didn't round off broke off). The 4 intake bolts near the carb are so rusted they don't even resemble bolts anymore and the timing chain cover and water pump bolts...well you get the picture. Does anyone have any sure fire ways to address this? Should I heat the heads with the torch? Should I just burn what's left of the intake bolts off? And what about the water pump and timing chain cover? I've been soaking everything in WD40 for days now and I really don't want to break all of these. Thanks, Mike C. '66 skylark conv. (needs 455)
Mike-I have only torn down a couple of big blocks.Rust and corrosion are formidable foes.Some on this board extol the virtues of the penetrating fluid PB Blaster.I have never used it,it not being available here that I have seen.Soaking in a good penetrating fluid for a lengthy period is a must if you want to avoid use of a cutting torch.WD40 never worked for me for anything other than a rust preventative.Also how you approach things may depend on whether you want to save a particular part-e.g. do you want to do no damage to the exhaust manifolds or intake.I have found in my humble experience that heat and shock work well on most stubborn bolts-heating with a good propane torch or welding torch and shock by way of striking the bolt with a cold chisel and a heavy hammer.Obviously you have to be particularly careful with disassembly of the front cover and oil pump.One thing that cannot be overlooked is the use of good quality sockets.Don't use cheap stuff-you will only make matters worse.I have used good 6 point sockets on the same bolt to good effect where a 12 point would only slip.I have also had good luck with using an angle grinder just going part-way through a stuck bolt-the heat and vibration will usually allow you to then back the thing out with a socket.There are usually many ways to skin the cat.The important thing is to not lose your cool.Easier said than done! Others will have all kinds of good suggestions likely better than the foregoing.Whatever you do don't reuse any of the old fasteners.Good luck.Rod
The timing cover bolts are so long...I don't know about the torch. I broke one off and drilled it out- not a fun job, took 6 hours of drilling. If you can, wait before you proceed, and gets three or four opinions. If you try to burn the bolts off the timing cover or the water pump, they are aluminum, and will melt before you burn through a steel bolt. On the timing cover bolts: if I was really afraid of breaking some off, I would consider cutting or drilling the head off the bolt- you don't want to use those bolts again anyway. then I would pull off the timing cover. I would then use a penetrant like P'Blaster instead of WD-40- WD-40 was designed as a cleaner, WD stands for Water Displacement, or so I'm told...anyway, P'Blaster is the stuff I swear by, and someone else told me that the company that makes that makes an even better penetrant now. But anyway, I'd remove the bolt heads so that I could pull off the cover. (don't forget that the 455 cover also bolts to the oil pan). After I pulled off the cover, then I'd spray penetrant directly onto the threads repeatedly for maybe a day. Then, I'd try a pair of vice grips on the bolt, as close as I could get to the bolt hole as possible. I might try rapping the vice grips with a hammer- not heavy blows, but sharp raps. If you break one off, you can drill them out, but boy is it tedious nerve wracking work with a portable drill. I can tell you how to do THAT, but let's keep our fingers crossed that this won't happen! Exhaust manifold: well, you're taking the heads to a machinist now...to get the broken bolts out. Use a die grinder or cut off wheel to remove the bolt heads, and pull the manifolds off, or, if they won't come off, yank the heads off and bring the heads to a machinist intake bolts: They go into the heads, too. You might be drilling off those bolt heads too To drill the head off a bolt- get a good drill index and a center punch. Center punch the bolt head deeply- you aren't re-using it anyway. Use a drill bit that is not quite as thick around as the bolt you will drill the head off of (need to check the size first- it's info you can get, don't worry). Then, when you go down, say 3/8" or however deep you need to go to go JUST through the head, get a cold chisel, put on some safety glass, and whack the head off the bolt. Sometimes the head will come off the bolt on the drill bit. But before you do anything, including worry, get a few opinions- you're not the first one to encounter this, and there are some real honest to God pros around here.
seized bolts if u can, bash the bolts head several times with a lrhe ball pean hammer . this works because i have done to remove the manifold bolts .
One tip, never try to pull the bolt loose with a snipe or brute force. You'll strip or break with brute force, an oscillating or vibrating force is what loosens a bolt. Consistently pulling away on the driver on-off-on-off-on-off will get you far better results. If you can though, go for the air tools. On the whole, I used to think a compressor and air gun were ridiculous extravagences for a home mechanic. Something only the experts had. A used $200 4 CFM@90 PSI compressor and $150 1/2" impact gun are a LOT cheaper than all the parts I used to break, ruin, or otherwise scar up. The frustration alone was worth it. Plus I can resell my tools for almost what I paid for `em. If you EVER plan to go this route or stay in the hobby for a while I highly reccomend it. In order of cheapness (and reverse order of effectiveness) WD-40 Penetrating Oil Hammer Driver Heat Air Gun
I have used PB Blaster for years, and it definitely works great... a new one I've been trying lately that I like better than PB Blaster is called "aerokroil" is comes in a orange-ish spray can.... its good stuff too.
I just went thru this on 3 engines, broke off some of the exhaust manifold bolts and rounded the rest, and the 4 intake bolts around the heat crossover were all rusted until they weren't even close to 9/16". I got the intake bolts out by first beating the hell out of them with a chisel around the flanged base of the head of the bolt and then taking a metric socket somewhere between 1/2" and 9/16", beating it onto the bolt head, and then it was just a matter of a 3/8 drive ratchet to back them out. On the exhausts, just use the metric socket (or any socket you can pound onto the bolt head securely). It's mostly just in applying a lot of shock (impact worked well to remove or twist off some of the bolts). In any event, you can get them all removed or broken off with a little patience, but I doubt you'll ever get them all to actually come out. Gonna be drilling some, especially the exhausts.
Mike, It is your own fault for not hiring better help when you pick up this engines. That non union labor will cost you every time! :grin: Lets weld some nuts on those broken bolts. Let me know your schedule. Take Care, Tom Willisford
Thanks...now the new problem Thanks for all the input. I got the intake off and pulled the heads with the exhaust manifolds still attached. Unfortunately, what I found when I removed the heads was even worse...rust in the cylinders, and lots of it! So now what do I do? Do I take the block to the machine shop to see if it can be bored or do I try and return it to the yard which is an hour and 1/2 drive each way? I tried to attach a picture but for some reason it wouldn't load (damn computers). Have any of you guys ever bored a block with really bad rust? I think the heads are junk (no big loss as they are '73 castings) but I'd like to save the block instead of loading it up and driving all the way back out there (assuming that the guy will even take it back). If the heads are junk but the block can be bored, is it still worth the $150. 00 that I payed for it? Thanks again for any input. Woe is me...Mike C.
The heads aren't necessarily junk because they're 73's. The 73's aren't as desirable as the earlier heads, but you can still attain a level of power from them. If they were 75 or 76's then they're junk, unless your putting a stocker together. Then you'd have to ask why would you put a stock 7.9:1 motor together. Also, you'd be surprised on what a bead blaster can do to rust. You'll be making them Stage 1's anyway. I'd say you didn't do that bad with the price you paid. It sounds like its definitly rebuildable. If you think that motor's bad, you should have seen my buddy's stage 2 motor when I picked it out of some guys back yard. The rust is probably from water that has gotton in the motor from someone taking the carb and aircleaner off. The years it spent outside, it had time to collect and cause corrosion. Have you looked at the bearings? That will tell the story of the motor. You can bore the block out probably to .038. After that its a crapshoot. The later ones can sometimes be bored to .060, but I've never taken one out past .030. You'll be doing a rebuild, so everything else that could be wrong or out of spec will be covered by the machine shop. Unless they're idiots. Tip on the exhaust manifold bolts: oxy-acetalene and an impact wrench will your freinds. If not, pay the machinist to do it. That's their favorite kind of work!!
if the cylinders cannot be bored , it may be able to overbore & have sleeves installed . i personally know of a gto 389 tri-carb engine that had to have 2 cylinders repaired this way , because of rust .
Thanks again guys. I've been getting alot of feed back and everyone is telling me that I'd be suprised what a .30 overbore will take out. The shop I'm taking it to comes highly recommended and has alot of buick experience and they sounded pretty hopeful. I just didn't want to waste any more time or money if this block wasn't salvagable. I know it could be sleeved but I could probably get another for less money (that is if it was any better than the first one). So the '73 heads aren't the worst but do they flow well enough to warrent putting stage 1 valves in or should I look for older heads. I was planning on just doing a valve job on the stock heads just to give me something to run 'til I could save up for aluminum ones. Hey Joe, what part of Pittsburgh are you from. I grew up outside of Pgh then lived in the north hills / west view area for 6 yrs before moving to Atlanta (was a chevy guy then). Thanks again, sometimes I just need some positive reinforcement. Mike C.
You'll be fine, Mike. When you put the engine back together: use anti-seize on any bolt you can. You'll be glad you did.
Hey Mike, I'm from Shaler, but I live between Shaler and Clarion. With working on the railroad and working on an extra board (6 more years I'll have a regular job), I don't really have a home terminal. I could get called to work in Butler, Punxytauny, Dubois, or Bradford. I tend to work in Butler, so I spend alot of time in Pittsburgh. But I intend to build a house on my property in Clarion. My aunt from Clarion, moved down to GA last year. I forget what town, but its by an air force base. My buddy used a 73 motor and heads in a 77 Century. He had Stage 1 valves (stock replacement), and he ported and gasket matched them himself. The motor also had a KB118 cam and stock 70 10:1 pistons. He ran 12.7's. This motor later became a Stage 2 motor that went into his 69 Sportwagon. It ate a screw, one of the forged piston's he put in egged and split the cylinder wall. He got $10 for it from the scrap man. I got the Stage 1 heads. I put them on my 76 Electra. Woke it up tremendously. Now that car is wasted with rust. It's lined up next to my 78 Merc station wagon demi car up in Clarion. They'll both be getting their motors pulled when the ground hardens up.
machinist Mike - Make sure the shop has a torque plate for the block...if not see if you can get one. If he says "whats that?" or doesn't recommend it, find a new shop... - Bill
Kroil Corey - you are right on about Kroil. I used to use PB Blaster until a buddy of mine that sails on an ore carrier in the Great Lakes steered me to Kroil. He said that is all they use on those ore boats and you can't imagine the corrosion on those things. I've used the Aero-Kroil in a spray can, as you have, but it also comes in a can like 3-in-1 oil. It's hard to find. Maybe Grainger carries it. It's made by the Kano Corporation. :TU: Mike P.S. We used some real good stuff in the Army, but it came in an O.D 5 gallon can, Made by Kano, also.o No: Mike
Joe, Boy, we used to have some fun in Butler back in the early '80's. I grew up in a small town called Zelienople. We started going to Butler on the weekends looking for races. At first we had this macho rivalry between our crew and the locals there but eventually we all became friends and had many, many good times cruising main street and racing out on hywy 422. There are a few towns in Ga with military bases... Hinesville, Columbus, Jonesboro...who knows? Anyhow, thanks for the note. Mike C.
There was a little dragrace type pf thing at the Zelienople airport last year. The racing part wasn't that great. No timers and only an 1/8 mile. They had you do your burnouts about 50 yards from the starting line. After your burnout you had to wait in line for a few minutes before you raced. I did get to see the Hot Rodding news Panal van race though.
airport show/race Joe I went up to visit my brother the week after that show. He was there and told me about it. If the organizer is the same guy I'm thinking of, I painted a '64 GTO for him back in the early '80's. Small world huh? Mike C.
