455 Timing Cover Replacement

The front of my 455 is leaking oil from.....everywhere. After doing some research and a few conversations with the helpful folks at TA, I decided to bit the bullet and go with one of their timing covers. This is the first time i'm really doing anything of significance with this motor, and I'm looking for any hints or tips I can get before I get going.

I've got the following on the way from TA:

Oil Pump Assembly (timing cover) 1533A
Oil Pump Primer 1509
Stainless Timing Cover Bolt Set 1110-455SS
Crank Pulley bolt Kit 1108P
Thermostat (180) 1535A180
T-Stat Gasket 1703
Water Pump 1537BHP
Gasket Set 1701-455

One of my big concerns is making sure everything is sealed up tight this time so I don't get more oil leaks or wind up with coolant in my oil. Any thoughts and advice appreciated!

 

Long thread but some good stuff here.

Done the job several times. Not too bad.

https://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/uhhh-timing-cover-leak.360985/

 

Sounds like you have all the bases covered.
On install, just spray the timing cover gasket with Hi Tack, DO NOT USE RTV !
The timing cover bolts put a smear of RTV on the threads, some enter the water jacket, I believe the lower ( the very bottom ones) enter the crank case (oil)
There IS a picture of which ones enter water and oil, I can never remember which ones so I put RTV on all of them.

 

Since you have to take the harmonic balancer off, inspect it really well. I ended up having to replace mine, when I installed the TA cover. It was split at the keyway channel, and the bonding rubber was in pretty rough shape.

You'll like the loaded and blue printed TA timing cover. It's not cheap, but they do an awesome job setting everything up!

 

Definitely worth the read, thanks!

Going through the thread referenced above, i'm pretty sure i'll use the Hi Tack or Copper Coat on the gasket. Appreciate those tips! I'm leaning toward just sealing all the bolt threads as well. I was thinking about using loctite 592 thread sealer. Am I better of just using RTV?

I was actually concerned about this and was strongly considering replacing it just because. Then I saw the price and got a bit lost in the internal vs. external balance thing and decided I'd be better off just reusing what was on there if I could. I am worried about the rubber thought because the front main has been leaking all over it so I might have to figure that out.

I was hesitant because of the price, but I'm also a bit paranoid and did not want to screw up the oil pump. I've only had the car about a year, but I've know it since this motor went in (https://v8buick.com/index.php?threads/new-guy-from-ct.393258/#post-3485360) and I know the oil pump gasket started leaking fairly quickly. After talking with TA about the issues they find with covers sent in I decided to just bite the bullet and hopefully not have to touch this for a while knowing all the mating surfaces will be nice and flat.

Now i'm wondering about the cam bumper/endplay also as that has come up a few times in what i've been reading. It seems like that's mainly a concern with a roller set up? This isn't a roller.

 

That’s strictly for roller cams, your fine with a flat tappet

 

Absolutely! There's a dozen different gasket sealers, and any one of them is better for the application than RTV Silicone. I'm fond of Gasgacinch, but High Tack is well-recommended, too.

Absolutely NOT.

RTV Silicone is NOT the right product for that application. It "works" but is far from optimum. The 592 is a better plan. You may want to use an activator along with the 592 especially if you're using plated or stainless steel bolts going into aluminum, since plated or stainless bolts, and aluminum are not "active" metals.

 

The Activators Loctite recommends just contain a metalic ion the liquid needs to harden, in combination with the lack of air. When Aluminums or Stainless Steels passive oxide surface layers are breached they both will actively rust or like when a bolt or fitting of simlar alloys are screwed together they will gald and cold weld / sieze together if the rubbing surfaces scrape off their oxide layers. You use anti-sieze compound to prevent this active metal to metal contact. Both metals are self-healing when their damaged active surface scratches and dents can get air to the surfaces, but you have to keep oil, dirt, etc. off the bared surface so the air's Oxygen will get to / combine with the Chromium in the Stainless Steel or Aluminum metal to protect the exposed surfaces again. Like the Chrome plating over the shiny Nickel bumper that keeps it from tarnishing much, triple Chrome plating is a layer of Copper, then a layer of Nickei, then Chrome, not three layers of Chrome on the steel for shine protection. At least that's the way it's been since last year.
Silicone 2 type Room Temperature Vulcanizing (RTV) rubber sealers, the ones that do not smell of Actic Acid (Vineger) when they cure, have always sealed the oil pan to timing chain cover corner up for me without problems, like the intake manifold to cylinder head corners that need some filler properties with their sealant. Got to get the surfaces clean of oil and residue with spray on brake cleaner or something before application of the goo.
You will definitely need Activator with the Loctite if you are screwing two PVC pipe fittings together or something similar. Ever notice when you loose the cap to the loctite bottle and plug the bottle hole with a metal screw or nail the liquid in the bottle gets ruined and goes hard but if you use a tooth pick or golf tee type plug with out metal ions it lasts just fine til your next use. Five pound answer to a two pound question.

 

Thanks Mark, that's what I thought but appreciate the confirmation.

I am using stainless bolts, ordered the activator Loctite recommends in the data sheet. Thanks, hadn't considered that before!

 

... another thing that's a "while you're in there", check the tension on the timing chain. Mine was pretty loose so I replaced it and the sprockets, since I had it all exposed anyway. I thought it was an extra $60 well spent at that point.

 

I always use anti seize on the bolts that go through the timing cover and thread sealant on the threads that aren't in blind holes.

 

I was getting a starting timing number on it yesterday before taking everything apart, and found that it's pretty erratic. The distributor is supposed to be locked out for advance, and I was getting about 30 at idle, but it's not consistent and actually does advance a good 10 degrees as it goes up the rpm range. I'll definitely see if the chain is contributing to this, i'm thinking the distributor is worn from the bouncing at idle though.

 

Be patient with the removal of the bolts. Breaking these is the hardest part of the job. I start with a box wrench and tap on them in the tighten direction until I see a bit of movement, If you just put a socket on them and apply force you will have issues.

If you have impact tools, that's probably a major win (I don't).

 

It seems like it's locked since the rotor is bolted directly to the tone wheel, unless the pickup can advance? I can't seem to get the cap off. The bolts are threaded into the plastic of the rotor, and are not breaking loose when I try to turn them with a screwdriver from the top. No vac advance. I can turn the rotor back and forth about 1/4", which seems like a lot? The distributor shaft is rotating with the rotor.

At this point I'm thinking about changing the distributor anyway because I don't like this setup and want a rev limiter, but I'm concerned the gear is chewed up or something. I'll probably try to pull the distributor tomorrow.

Vid of the rotational play: https://youtube.com/shorts/c-5Injvoex8?feature=share

 

If the rotor moves that far, that's maybe your ten degrees.

Take the rotor off, show us what's underneath. I wanna see what the "centrifugal advance" looks like now.

How is the rod attached to the remnants of the vacuum advance?

 

That kinda looks like the Lectric conversion. There is probably a screw head under the gold tab...

Edit: Oh, now I see the slot in the threaded stud. You'll probably have to hold that with a screwdriver while turning the nut loose with a wrench.

 

What I'm really concerned about is that it's not just the rotor moving, the shaft moves with it 1:1 so all that play is in the gear mesh between the distributor and cam.

I was able to get the nuts off. The studs look like screws threaded into the rotor from the bottom. It seems like you should be able to just lift the rotor off, but you can't. The distributor has to come out anyway so that's probably next step. I think they are allen head, and I'll be able to use an allen wrench on them once the distributor is out. While it's in either the pickup or the intake are generally in the way.

 

You win Sir!

I don't see anything that makes this look like it's locked out. The weights move and seem to adjust. Apparently I've been running 40*+ advance at the top end since I got the car. The gear has some wear, but doesn't seem like anything excessive, and I guess the play just is what it is.

Planning to get something on order to put in when this goes back together. Any suggestions for something on the simple/reliable side but still has a rev limiter?