455 Timing Fuel Pump Radiator & Cooling Issues

Have been driving a 72 Riviera since 1974. Moved to AZ some years ago, and got separated from some tools that I collected back in the 70s to R & R my 455s timing mechanisms. I tried a Google search, hoping to find some of these things and discovered this support site.

Seems like all of the Buick Geniuses on Earth are right here.

I know this will be a long post, but I thought I would submit some inquires with a focus upon issues that tend to arise in conjunction with installing a new timing set.

Timing Issues

I went directly to TA Performance last week and picked up their timing cover (1533A) with oil pump pre-installed. It is a finely crafted aluminum cover that offers many features, which were not incorporated into the original cover built by GM. I also got a high performance (1524) Rollmaster 9-key timing set. This timing set definitely feels like an assembly of high performance parts.

If Im reading the timing set directions right --- then all I need to do is:

1) Rotate the crankshaft until the Number1 cylinder is at TDC
2) Mount the Cam Gear with its mark at 6 Oclock
3) Use the 4A Keyway for the Crank
4) Rotate the Crank clockwise until the Number 4 Tooth is at the 12 Oclock position, which aligns it with the mark on the Cam Gear.
5) Install the Distributor

A) Im running an Electronic Distributor that I pulled out of a 75 Riviera. Rebuilt it about 18-months ago. I needed to run about 10 degrees advanced -- at idle -- the last time the timing set was replaced.

B) My guess is that a Buick Pro would pull the timing gears back off and remount them with the chain after the gears have been aligned.

C) I saw a post that indicates the pump should be primed first. The poster said that he broke off the tip of a wood spade bit -- inserted the bit into a socket and spun the oil pump shaft with a drill motor. Seems like a wise move.

D) I have been reading a post on this site by LARRY70GS entitled: Power Timing Your Buick V8. I have never done this before, but have run across articles recently that indicate this is vital to achieving peak performance. I'm still confused as to whether this will require modifications to my distributor. Just thought Id mention it here while Im trying to find things I need to line up before I begin the timing set R & R.

Question #1: As Ive never installed a 9-key timing set, can somebody tell me if the steps (1-5) listed above are the correct procedure? Any tricks of the trade that you would incorporate into this process will be appreciated.

Question #2: Harmonic Balancer I have the Puller but I need the bolts. Does anyone know the thread / grade & size of the pullers mounting bolts?

Question #3: Crank Shaft Bolt Does anyone know the socket size I need?

Question #4: High Temp Anti-Seize Compound - Aluminum threads can get stripped the instant a steel bolt is inserted into them if they are not treated with anti-seize compound. Does anyone have a High Temp Anti-Seize compound preference?

Question #5: Timing Light Have been looking at a Equus / Innova Digital Advance Timing Light with Remote Starter and Circuit Tester INN5568 $149. Never heard of this manufacturer. A digital dial-back light with Tach / Dwell features seems like the way to go. Does anyone have a particular brand or model preference for a timing light in a mid-priced range?


Fuel Pump Issues

Its been a while since I changed my fuel pump and I want to stay with a mechanical unit.

Question #1: Fuel Pumps Does anyone have a particular preference for high performance fuel pumps with a mid-range price.

Question #2: Fuel Pump Mounting Has anyone found a high performance fuel pump in the mid-range price that is pre-drilled and/or has a rocker arm offset (built-in) with the clearance that is necessary to accommodate a double roller chain installation.


Radiator - Cooling & Fan Issues

Since I need to remove it to install the timing set, I figure this would be a good time to have the engines cooling system back-flushed, and while Im at it I would like to put in a new radiator. The one I am running is 7-years old and should be rebuilt. Aluminum radiators are too much expense for me at this point, and I have a couple of electrical problems that could be just the formula for electrolysis. I have Modine (#3165) four core radiator installed now, and as I stated, its been years since I have looked at this issue.

Question #1: Does anyone know of a high efficiency radiator that they would prefer over the Modine (#3165) four core that I have installed now.

Question #2: Does anyone have an insight regarding such matters as additives that I might want to employ in the cooling system, given the fact that I am installing an aluminum timing cover.

Question #3: Does anyone have a preference for a high performance fan and clutch.

It did turn into a long post, but I figure someone new to the 455 will be looking for these parts too. The old 455 is a pretty durable engine, but there have been a number of things developed over the years that can enhance its performance. There are a lot of genuinely intelligent and talented people on this site and any ideas that you guys have regarding the issues I have raised would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards Terry :bglasses:

 

Many questions-I do know that once you break that big bolt loose on the balancer I think its 1-1/8? Can check when I get home 2pm cntrl time, but all of the stock balancers I have removed just pull right off with your hands..

 

1-1/8" does ring a bell. I think that was the crank bolt size.

I must say that I questioned myself quite a bit about the length of the post. It tends to cover the entire spectrum of issues I have faced when I installed a new timing set in the past.

I collected most of the tools for this operation 30-years ago, in my mid-20’s, and lost them in my late-40’s.

The thing is that I really don’t possess anything like the technical knowledge that many people on this site demonstrate.

When I discovered this site a few days ago, I noticed that a number of posts in the “Wet Behind the Ears” section appeared to be from people who were working on these engines for the first time.

Of course, achieving “High Performance” in an engine requires a system wide approach towards ignition, fuel, and cooling components.

That’s why I thought I’d try to examine the over-all issues, because replacing the timing set involves all of these components.

I genuinely agree with you that it is a lot of questions, and I thank you very much for the answer to one of them.

Best regards -- Terry :bglasses:

 

terry, you do know that when you install the distributor, the rotor should be pointing at #1 cylinder on the distributor cap?

 

John:

Yes, I realize that the rotor is supposed to point at the Number-1 contact on the distrubutor when the gears are installed properly. I have had it 180 degrees out more than once.
Your response speaks to my concern about this subject, because I've never installed a 9-key timing set before. A big part of my concern -- regarding the timing gear and chain installation -- is whether or not the 5-steps I have listed above are correct. It seems like the rotor's position with respect to the Number-1 contact might be slightly skewed, but that's the only way I can interpret the directions that came with the timing set.

Best regards -- Terry :bglasses:

 

Cooling I would use the 'expensive' orange(the stock cover is also alum.)-I have allways used the green. (With stock cooling-no problems) always use low mineral or distilled water to mix.
Make sure you have good radiator air flow-and seal between raidiator and shroud.
Then you shouldn't have probelms even with a stock 4 core.

 

Will definitely look into the orange coolant. It's going to get pretty hot in AZ in a few weeks. Talked to a friend today who is a real high tech parts supplier (he has some sort of formal degree in parts technology) and he can get things that I can't find anyplace else.

He says they've made some serious advances in Radiator Technolgy since I got my Modine (#3165) brass / copper 4-core. Says some new aluminum & plastic models offer "higher efficiency," a good thing when you're dealing with 118 degree temperatures. He deals with an outfit called Pro-Alliance, here in AZ, and is going to run down the specs for me, which I'll post when I get them. Figure I'll get my Modine rodded out, and use which ever one works best. Makes maintence a lot easier when you have a spare copy of some things.

Decided to order TA's "Street / Strip" fuel pump (#1534C) and have them tap the boss for the fuel return. It's not a Stage One, but it looks like it's built for high performance, and has a mid-range price. I read another post here, which indicated that a Stage One tends to wear the eccentric faster, and this engine has some miles on it. TA also indicates that this pump has elongated mounting holes to facilitate the 1/16" offset that is required with a double roller timing chain. Seemed like a good match for their timing cover, which is a very impressive piece of craftsmanship.

Thanks for the tip regarding different coolants. I always thought they were all the same, so I'll be looking into those specs. Do appreciate the ideas, and will try to reciprocate when I get some.

Best regards -- Terry :bglasses:

 

2 bottles of RedLine Water Wetter available at most big chain auto parts stores

Best fan is a 7-blade stocker - watch the Parts for sale forum here or start a thread in the parts wanted

as for the clutch, I'll quote The Wizard who you've already read - LARRY70GS -

[/QUOTE]


I dont claim to be an expert ... or even know much, heck I dont even play one on T.V. but you've certainly come to the right place to get yourself back in the seat behind a ground pounding 455 !!

Welcome Terry :beers2: Happy Wrenching

BTW - my car ran mid 15's before I found the Buick Community :Brow:

 

Alan:

That’s definitely a good tip regarding “Water Wetter.” Did a little research on it. Appears that it combines with the water and coolant to alter their viscosity slightly, and builds up a thin protective, anti-corrosive film on all of the cooling system’s parts. Looks like it’s – widely used – good for any kind of radiator – and a must have – on my list.

Looked at available radiator options for the 455, and decided to order a Proliance (PLI-433165 Radiator, Copper / Brass 4-Core). Saw that a lot of the guys on the site here bought theirs from Summit Racing. They had the best deal - $221.90 - delivered to my front door. That saved me $37 and a 30-mile drive. Looks like it might be built a little better than my Modine.

In terms of timing lights the – Equus – is the brand I have encountered more than any other. Ordered a package deal online (Timing Light Digital Advance – with – Remote Starter – and – Circuit Tester – INN 5568) from Automotive Specialty Tools, inc. for $149 total costs to my door.

Looks like they’re having a special, because that’s as much as $50 less than other places are charging for the light alone. Researched the company a bit before I ordered. It appears that they are well known and do a high volume of online sales. The remote starter - and – circuit tester are a brand called Innova.

Scheduled to have the engine’s cooling system back flushed (Clean Out Those Ports) at a local shop first thing next week – That’s $78 worth of pressurized maintenance the old 455 can use.

Figure I’ll focus on The Wizard’s “Power Timing Your Buick V8” article this weekend –

If I can get that bit of System Logic down pat she’ll do 90 mph all day long, and she can still jump fairly well off the line – but there’s a wee twinge of bearing noise somewhere down inside of her that seems to be telling me _ I shouldn’t fool around with inertia too much.

Thanks a lot for the heads up on the fan system – haven’t thought about this stuff for a good while and definitely appreciate the advice.

Best regards & Semper Fi – Terry :bglasses:

 

MR. WIZARD:

Let me say that I have tremendous respect for your expertise, and very much appreciate the benefit of your advice.

If Im interpreting it correctly then the only practical way to degree a cam is when its new. Its not the easiest thing to visualize, so I thought I would pursue the subject for the benefit of others who may be reading this thread. My theories regarding this matter are as follows:

A) Ideally, if the timing set was installed in the manner outlined in steps 1-5 above -- with a new camshaft -- the camshafts lobes would be advanced by 4* with respect to top dead center, when the distributor is initially installed. Angular relationships between the gear keyways mounted on the camshaft and the lobes on a new camshaft would present known quantities.

With a high mileage camshaft, it is not possible to gauge the angular relationship between the gears keyways and the camshafts lobes, because surfaces on the camshafts lobes have eroded over time. Hence, as you stated above you have no way to know where the cam is installed.

B) Therefore, given the fact that my camshaft has significant wear on it, the most appropriate course for me to chart is:

1) Establish TDC
2) Mount the camshaft gear with its mark at 6 Oclock
3) Mount the crankshaft gear utilizing the keyway that has a generic indentation mark rather than a number, which should position the
corresponding tooth that also has a generic indentation mark at the 12 Oclock position, directly below the mark on the camshaft gear.

C) Thus, the camshaft is positioned in the most appropriate place to accommodate factors of wear it has undergone, and adjustments to ignition timing can be made through the distributor, rather than through attempts to alter angles of the camshafts lobes, which have undergone significant wear and are in an unknown state.

This leaves the subject of Power Timing the Buick V8, which is addressed in your article.

The Delco-Remy High Energy Ignition (HEI) that I am utilizing was taken out of a 1975 Riviera. This was the first model to be incorporated as standard equipment on the 455 by GM; and as such, I have wondered if I might get better performance by replacing it with an after market HEI.

Ive always figured that something inherent to the distributors characteristics accounted for why I need to run between 10* to 12* advanced in order to feel like the engine is performing on par with its capabilities; however, I never considered the need for power timing the engine until I discovered your article.

Based on your article, I understand the need for installing lighter tension springs to get the mechanical advance factored in at 2500 RPM or lower; however, there is couple of things I have had difficulty envisioning. What I dont quite understand is the nature of adjustments that need to be made once I have determined the limits of the mechanical advance.

It seems like altering the distributors position when the engine is running at 2500 RPM, would also alter it at idle, which as I stated, runs best with about 10* advance at that speed.

Anyway, I read several pages of your article before I registered, and I need to get back into it now that I can view the pictures, because it certainly seemed like a crucial factor in gaining optimal performance.

Regarding the radiator issue: I think TAs (TA 2054E) package is the model I would install, if I switched to an all aluminum radiator. That choice would be based on the fact that it is designed to fit in my Riviera properly and has the fans pre-configured. However, I have two problems that are preventing me from installing an all aluminum radiator at this point price -- and the fact that I have a couple of wiring problems under the dash. My understanding is that a wiring problem anywhere in the car can lead to electrolysis in these systems.

If you think there is a plastic / aluminum model on the market that would be better than a 4-core copper / brass model -- I would definitely be interested in trying one of those, because it wouldnt be a major loss if I developed problems down the road. Most of them appear to be comparable in price to copper / brass 4-core models. I dont know if there is a hard and fast reason for installing an electric fan with these aluminum cores, but I would prefer to stick with a stock configuration fan if possible until I knew that I could run it without problems with electrolysis.

Alan W a.k.a. 69GS400s has noted your preference for the NAPA (271301) clutch. Thought Id look into that in the next week or two. I have been running a stock replacement of some sort for about the last 5-6 years, with a 4-blade fan. Most of the fans Ive looked at online have 6-blades, and the guy at the radiator shop indicated that a lot of people like to run Flex-Type fans. Havent arrived at much of a conclusion regarding fans, except for your recommendation on the clutch.

Again, I wanted to say I truly appreciate the advice that you offer to people on this site.

Best regards -- Terry :bglasses:

 

I wouldn't worry about lobe wear on your cam - if its got a decent amount of miles on it, timing chain stretch has more of an effect than lobe wear - your new setup will take care of that

Cam advance/retard is the relationship of the pistons' position in the cyl relative to the valve movement event dictated by the lobe profile - altering the advance/retard of the cam position relative to the crank manipulates the torque curve relative to engine rpm ... igniton timing.is the relationship of when the spark event takes place relative to the pistons' position in the cyl.

I think a lot of confusion is caused b/c people think of these two events as independant variables whereas they are not - once the cam timing is fixed by installing the timing chain this event is no longer a variable per say, and the only event that can change is when spark is introduced relative to crank position and that it precisely what power timing addressess

New engines with variable valve timing (VVT) allow cam phasing to take back on an independency from crank position and ignition thus allowing peak power / efficiency to be manipulated along the rpm band relative to power demand

 

Alan:

That's exactly what I was thinking. All I have to worry about is getting the Number-1 cylinder to top dead center, and mounting those two gears together with the chain, regardless of the fact that the crankgear has 9-keyways. Seems like I could use any of them that will allow me to accomplish the steps outlined above - After that - Getting the distributor to introduce spark at the proper time is my only concern. I still have to get a couple of things worked out in my mind regarding "Power Timing."

This is why I like to mentally slip on my coveralls before I actually start fidgeting around with her splines - Think I'll leave those - angle of the dangle in the valve train - calculations to you young guys with the "funny cars," and I do most sincerely appreciate the advice you guys have given me.

Best regards -- Terry :bglasses:

 

To add or sumize what Larry is saying : you have two choices going foward with the timing set

1) If you are happy with the way the cam/engine was performing then.mark with a grease pencil in several places EXACTLY where the cam and crank are NOW and install the new timing set so it is as close to this position as psooible

2) Buy a degreeing wheel, read A LOT and reset the cam positioning from scratch

#2 requires that you either have the cam card from when YOUR cam was ground or bringing the cam to someone with the tools to "read" the cam profile and provide you with this info. This will require removing the cam.

... A good time for a cam upgrade if you've got the 'nads for it

 

Welcome to the site. Ok, I can answer some of the questions that no one has got too yet. Holley and Carter both make a decent high performance mechanical fuel pump. T/A Performance highly recommends using an additive called RMI25 for use with anything aluminum. I agree with the others in that you should run your stock cam straight up. Advancing it 4 degrees will increase low rpm torque but take away top end. In other words, it moves your rpm range down a few hunderd rpm. But these motors make big torque straight off idle, and they are not very revvy to start with. You shouldnt need a dwell meter unless you have points or you suspect that your electronic ignition is malfuncioning. BTW if the modlule in HEI goes bad, one of the possible symptoms is increased spark duration which melts caps, rotors, and coils. DEFINATELY prime your oil pump. I use an old flathead screwdriver that the handle broke off. The end flares out some, so I can slide a 5/8 or so socket over it without it falling off. The socket keeps the screwdriver from jumping out of the oil pump drive. Here's a trick. Pack the oil pump gears with vaseline. Take off the filter. Spin the pump. You will see the vaseline pour out kinda like liquid. Then as it is flowing it will turn more and more brown, as you are beginning to pick up oil. Once it is pure oil, put the filter back on, spin the pump a little more, and you're done priming. Good luck to ya!

 

Sorry guys -- Had way too many balls in the air lately -- but finally made a major leap in thought regarding THE WIZARD'S power timing advice --

It is all in the linkage -- Strickly mechanical -- I may even have the extra springs that came with the rebuild kit I installed about 18-months ago.

Indeed, I must remember to give that pump rod a good spin. Fortunately, it's a new cover from TA with the pump already installed and packed.

I'm going to install everything straight up -- chart the line of least resistance -- I really like the feel of a cam that's encased in bubble wrap ...

Best of times to ya all -- Terry :bglasses:

 

I see you jumped on the 7-bladed fan For Sale thread - I had "reserved" one earlier on and posted in the thread that it was for you :beer

That fan with the Napa clutch listed above should help you on your way to a :bglasses: cruising season

 

Alan:

The 7 - Blade configuration is definitely what I am looking for, but I see that everyone responding to that guy's sale is concerned about part numbers. That's why I framed my inquiry to him with a request for the numbers also. I thought he said that all of the fans he had were for a 455. I'm wondering if there are varied configurations of fans for 455s that went into different GM vehicles. If not, I don't care what it looks like, as long as it's straight, and I'm thinking that for the price I should affirm an intent to buy ASAP. Would sure be interested in your opinion on the matter.

Best of times to you -- Terry :bglasses: