470 rotating assembly

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by Cajunhotrod, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Cajunhotrod

    Cajunhotrod New Member

    Hey guys I'm new to buicks, but is there a company that sells a 470 rotating assembly? Or do I have to have my crank machined and buy custom pistons? Sorry if I seem a little ignorant to big block buicks guys
     
  2. Gallagher

    Gallagher Founders Club Member

    Welcome to the forum.

    Short answer. Yes you need your crank machined, but you don't need a custom piston anymore. There are a couple manufacturers that are stocking a piston now. One of them is Diamond.

    You can get everything you need from Jim Weise at Tri-Shield Performance, located in Minnesota.
    Jim did a nice write up on the combo here. http://www.trishieldperformance.com/470--what-and-why-.html
     
  3. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    You can buy the entire rotating 470 assembly from Jim.
     
  4. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    You can get areal nice CP piston with rings for just under $800 and a direct bolt in 4340 connecting rod for around $600.
     
  5. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    I have just taken delivery of the first set of my custom 470 BBB Con rods, that eliminate the requirement to widen the crank. These are no longer a BBC rod, they have the correct dimensions for our Buicks now (bank offset and Big end width) and I retained the .990 pin end, and the 6.800 length from the BBC rods we used to use..

    Widening the rod throws on the crank was one of the real issues with building this combo with BBC rods. Many grinders would look at you like you had two heads when you asked then to do it.. I was lucky, my guy had no issue doing it, but that was not the feedback I got from a lot of guys trying to have their own crank ground.

    These ARP 2000 bolt equipped rods are $595.00 and are second to none. Made for me by Tom Molnar, the chief engineer of Oliver for many years, and the man behind their well know products.

    The only downside is that we do have to narrow the rod bearings slightly, but that jig is being machined right now, I will have to see how the process goes to price it, but I don't expect the cost to be prohibitive.

    So now the correct BBB 470 rod is available!

    And yes, I do offer complete 470 rotating assemblies with my exclusive Diamond piston, and now our new rods!

    Thanks

    JW
     
  6. Bluzilla

    Bluzilla a.k.a. "THE DOCTOR"

    Great News Jim!
    So all that's left is to offset grind the journals .050, ....Are they forged H beams, how much do they weigh, pressed fit or bushed for floating?
    Will you be posting pictures soon?

    Larry
     
  7. Jim-

    If you're making a jig to narrow the rod bearings, what should a guy tell his machinist if he buys these new rods?

    Are these rods a TSP only deal or are they a shelf item through distribution?
     
  8. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA


    Jim, according to my Federal Mogul bearing catalog the standard replacement BBC rod bearings are only .892" wide while the performance versions are only .865" wide. So all you would have to do with YOUR rod design is have them machine the bearing tang in your rods that centers the bearing or even offset them away slightly from the crank side. Narrowing the bearings I really don't think is necessary because the BBB bearings are .826" wide, .865 - .826 = .039" or .892" - .826" = .066". A BBB rods width is .928, so even with the wider standard replacement bearings they are still .036" narrower than the rod is, while the performance version is .066" less than the rod's housing bore. It would seem that all that is required is to get the bearing tang in the right position so the bearing stays inside of the rod's housing bore's thickness and you should be good to go.

    Machining bearings would probably not be such a good idea and a waste of time if the tang is machined in the right position on the rod.

    Great to hear that these parts are becoming reality, good job JW!!




    Derek
     
  9. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    No, these are the same 470 rods I posted on my site a couple months ago and the ones I was talking about.
     
  10. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Derek,

    When the rods were in design, Tom contacted me and let me know that he moved the tang location in the rod, but even the performance bearing will require slight modification.

    I just saw the first set here the other day, before I left to go out of town, so I have not had time to drop all the available bearings options in and check it, I will take Tom's word for it.

    JW
     
  11. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Paul,

    While they were made for me specifically, and under my direction, I did not either require exclusivity, or buy the whole run.

    Parts sales are not my gig, good parts to use to build my engines is the only goal I have here.

    I don't recall the part number, Sue had to look it up by rod length when I ordered the first set here, it was not listed with the other Buick rods then, but call Molnar and ask for them if your interested. Just tell Sue or Tom you want the Buick 6.8 stroker rod built for Jim @ Tri-shield.

    Your machinist should be able to handle bearing fitting.

    JW
     
  12. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    Its cool that he is carrying 3 different rods for the BBB, good work on the 470 rods. I got him to change the stock replacement rods to .990 busing so it will cover both .990 or open it up to 1.00. I have pictures of his rods but the need to be resized to post.
     
  13. mbusher83

    mbusher83 Well-Known Member

    Jim, how much do the diamond Pistons weigh with and without the pin? Do you know how much these new rods will weigh? Putting together a new shortblock this winter and trying to explore all options. Thanks
     
  14. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Mark,

    The standard version of my piston is 615g without pin, with superlight option, it gets down to about 585g

    The standard 4130 pin is .185 wall and weighs 176g. Depending on how much power and how hard your going to spin it, we can go all the way down to .135-.145 wall thickness with an H-13 Tool steel pin, this will drop the pin weight 30-40 grams.

    You know, I did not look at the rod weight, but I bet it's in the 730ish range, with the thinner end on it now... the stock BBC width versions are 748g, which compared very favorably to the eagles I was using, at 808g.

    I know when we were using the eagle rods, a 455 crank would balance with very minor correction in the counterweights, the bobb was very near stock weight.. and a crank that started out life as a 400 or 430, would need minor weight additions often...

    Big change when we went to the Molnar rod, now we are lightening the counterweights substantially.

    Also, the Molnar rod eliminated the requirement for an oil pan with extra clearance, as all that weight reduction came from a smarter and smaller profile of the big end. We are now back to being able to use a stock pan with a 1/8 thick oil pan gasket.

    Of course I would recommend and aftermarket HP pan on a race motor.

    I will get back with you on the exact rod weight later on here.
     
    Julian likes this.
  15. BennyK81

    BennyK81 Well-Known Member

    What is the actual Price for a complete 470 rotating assembly? I am currently disassembling two 455 blocks and I have not decided wich way to go. Also budget is not unlimited.
     
  16. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

  17. 87GN_70GS

    87GN_70GS Well-Known Member

    482 roataing assembly is the same price as 470
     
  18. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    As well as the Stage1 and Stage2 heads.
     

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