TheSilverBuick I see yours some of them sit as some of mine do off to the front of the lobe and others more on center I think i Got a bad grind on the cam I just Purchesed a TA 413 cam & Lifters from a member on the Board. Will See how things line up when installed.
Just wanted to add that the lifters are slightly convexed on the bottom to help with rotation, and another reason the lobes are ground with a slight taper is to keep the cam pushed torwards the rear of the engine.
Who adjusted your pushrods (old cam vs. new)? Since the lifters look so worn, is it possible that all or most of the pushrods were adjusted improperly? What was your cam break in like? How long, what rpm, did you pre-heat your oil, add zinc, etc...
Rob I did like recomended primed oil psi before start up ,start up run 2000 3000 rpm verying rpm for 30 min. did not pre heat oil Why would you do This ? thats a new one on me ? I used GM EOS the old stuff with zinc and loads of cam lube and i only have the one lifter all the rest show no sign of ware or minute wering not on the lifter but the cam Normal as i can see , Just 1 lobe #1 cyl intake I adjusted them my self 3 times to make sure they were right . This i think is a important just not sure how it plays in here from new lifters would start out quiet and after 20-30 min get noisey slight ticity tic like a soild lifter cam? and also would beed down quickly I run 10 40 mobil 1 oil great oil psi
The cam is lubed by splash oiling, warm oil splashes better than cold. I don't always do it, but I've done it several times.
I have a Question What sets the cams position in the block ? the rear cam plug ? the timming gear set or the back face of the front cam gear boss?
The location is controlled by the interface between the back face of the cam's timing gear flange and the front face of the block. Devon
Well after a sleepless night and further inspection I have discovered all of the lobes have major ware lifters look good except the obvious one and 1 more showing signs of ware . So i have come to the conclusion that the lifters not maintaining a good pump up or out of adjustment. Most likely the first .The ticity tic i always heard like a solid lifter camshaft .that they were sapling the crap out of the lobes and not maintaining constant pressures on the cam. The cam was broken in the right way But to many variables bad grind , lifters , brake in , I am no Machinist but look at the pics and anyone 2nd my thoughts
Sounds to me as if you broke in the cam with both (inner and outer) valvesprings installed. The first 20 minutes is the most important. If they started clacking then, you wiped the cam at breakin. Also did you use the mobile one for breakin? Synthetic oil should not be used for that. We use a straight wt 30 Castrol with ZDDP added and lots of moly on the lobes and bottom of the lifters only. Oil on the sides of the lifters so they can rotate freely. The motor need to come completely apart to de disinfected from all the metal from the cam and lifters. Mostly the piston skirts need to be checked for imbedded metal. Good luck
Jim I dont recal ? Thinking back i do not sure if they were . It is a REED Cam i got from the GSCA 7 -8 years ago Mr Lasiter recomended the grind when i got it and a( plastic bag of lifters )? a little weird i thought. I dont recall the lobe surfaces being black like the rest of the cam , after i installed it and broke it in had noisey lifters, I atributed this to worn rocker shafts replaced them with TA shafts and adjustable TA pushrods , I then called him and asked if he sent me rhoads lifters because i still had a noisey valvetrain at idle and lifters seem to bleed down very quickly .He said no had no expination for thr valve noise. I re adjusted the pushrods several times same thing , Thought it was normal with this cam ,thought about changing out lifters got a set of Lunati never put thm in ..... Understand Jim I did the Motor and chassie at the same time it took me another 61/2 years before i could drive the car .I did runn the motor 1 or 2 times a week Now i have 1500 miles and no idea of how many Hours on it and this is what i got,very disapointing I am going to replace with a TA 413 Cam and lifters .
ou: You Know i did brake in with both valve springs ued w 30 Castrol and lots of the old gm EOS before they change the mix and cam lube lots of it.and change the oil even if it looked dirty Just starte useing mobil one when i put the car on the road Feeling a little stupid right about now sounds like I did this along time ago and it just cought up to me
Oh Ya thanks for the insight Rick , This is so depressing on my Birthday I did not know to remove the inner springs for breakin, And I know know she will have to be torn down for sure Jim I dont recall it was 7-8 years ago buit motor and chassie up and running took 6 1/2 years to finish It was a REED cam i got from Mr Lasiter at the GSCA only remember the lifters came in a plastic bag . after what i thought was a correct breakin had noisy lifters at idle Hemikiller he called it .
GSX.. from the pics it looks like it was parkerized.. I went back and took a better look at your pics, and deleted my post.. I undeleted my and your post now.. so the thread flows. We have seen a couple threads on here recently with cam failures with fast ramp cams.. The faster the ramp on the cam, the more likely it is that there will be a failure during break-in.. it really is that simple. Your cam being noisy is typical of those types of cams.. not all of them are noisy, but most are. But that's not saying this has anything to do with what's going on here, just an observation. If you had way too high a spring pressure, it would cause both a noisy valvetrain, and the wear you see on those lobes. FWIW... I don't remove the inner spring for break in, as long as the springs are at, or just under 300lbs on the nose of the cam. I have never lost a lobe.. I do remove the inner spring for break in of the big solid stuff.. but hardly ever for street type hydraulics. I am not saying that you shouldn't, just pointing out that it's really not the head slapping moment you think your having.. It's more important at this point, to look at your spring pressures, and at the valve guides to make sure your not bottoming out the retainer on the guide/seal, at full cam lift. The springs certainly could have been the issue, if in fact you had a ton of seat and open pressure. Any idea what they were at? JW
Jim No I dont ! is there a way to check them ? i got the 70 stage 1 heads all done up from someone on the old GSCA board , years ago I have no Clue were they are at i did not see any spring bind i looked for that when i installed the new TA Rocker shafts and adjustable pushrods The noisey valve train got quiet with a little RPM if that helps any and is not there cold only after motor heats up
Very good stuff, I agree. Also if you originally did this 6+ years ago you could have Chinese lifters. Remember they had metallurgy problems the same time Comp and others had core issues. That's what really heightened the Zinc problem. As mentioned, check for coil bind. All your installed heights may not be the same. And yes the lifter should be offset over the lobe no matter how much taper is in the lobe. Never use Synthetic without an additive. I'm a dealer for Erson and they recommend regular oil with any good additive. The "diesel" oils (Rotella etc.) have too much detergent in them. Not good for the long run. For your average performance hydraulic flat tappet I'd recommend 125-130 on the seat and 325 or so open. Some people sacrifice seat pressure and go with more spring rate over the top. Not normally a good thing to do.
Take the heads off and bring them to a good high performance shop. Have your new cam specs with you. Tell them to check and set: Seat and open valvespring pressure -120 seat, 300 open is optimal for a 413 cam- plus/minus 10lbs for both those figures. Coil bind Retainer to guide clearance My experience on the dyno indicates you need about 300 lbs open pressure on most hyd cams on the 455 Buick. I have successfully run as little as 275 and as much as 330.. on hyd cams, depending on the cam. All of this is with the stock weight Buick valves, typical aftermarket retainers, pushrods ect.. JW
Thank You guys so much I have been pulling my hair out , looking for the cause .this motor was a beast for 5 month and bam , Must have slowly been eating it self up, Last weekends run finished her off. a 60 mile run at 3200 rpm I guess i did not think things through when i put the motor together , tryed to use the best part i could find and aford $$ with as much info as i could find . and alot of this info was not avalible to me then. just becoming computer literite. So Now I have no other choice but to pay the piper ,pull the motor and disassemble clean and look for more damage ! have the heads checked and set to cam specs. Then start rebuild Any recomendations on what to do with the lower end ? This is m last go around with this motor .
