Another lesson in how NOT to build a BBB

ugly findings in the oil this morning. The car was running better the more I drove it. It was more streetable than expected, sounded awesome and the power was great. I was really loving my Buick. All was well after cam break in when I changed the oil. As of this morning it had maybe 200 miles on it. I decided to check the oil before I took her for a ride. "WTF is that" :rant: :shock: . Gray oil on the dipstick. I pulled the system one oil filter and confirmed it. She's terminal. Bye eye I can see copper and brass and with a magnet, ferrous metal. I built this engine to the best of my abilities and triple checked everything I knew to check. Obviously, I have more to learn. When I get the ambition to yank the engine and tear it down I'll post my findings. Right now I need a break.

 

I hate to hear it Andy,I know the feeling.

 

Sorry to see you have problems Andy, mine don't seem as bad as yours but I can feel your pain. My motor has been back out once and now will have the intake off for the second time while in the car. Give it a rest and figure out what went wrong, maybe it is only minor and you caught it early enough to save things. keep us posted.

Steve

 

Any chance the metal shavings came from a reground or polished crank that was improperly cleaned?

I saw much the same on a Japanese 4 banger that was opened up after the initial fire-up.
The crank oil holes were full of shavings that had embedded into the bearing material.
The shavings came from grinding the crank and neither the shop or owner had cleaned the oil galleys in the crank.

I don't remember seeing copper bearing material though.


I've pulled more than a few bits of detritus from factory machined brand new 4 stroke dirt bikes on the initial oil change.
(I used to put ten minutes or so on the factory oil, then change it to what I was going to use. Another couple of changes with about a half hour on each did the trick. At one or two quarts per, no big deal.)


Anyhoo, with the gray oil, I wonder if you're using the steel bathtub gaskets?
I've had several of these fail to seal properly and dump coolant into the oil.
The sealants that came with the gaskets were used, but the best trick was a thin ring of copper RTV around the water ports.

Along those same lines I'm all through with the steel bathtub gaskets - except for using the cut-down bathtub - and am now running home-made intake gaskets. (.030 Velumoid paper fwiw- they work great.)
Still using the rubber end gaskets though.

 

Same thing happend to me. How much oil pressure did/do you have?

 

torque converter lined up correct to the trans? if it doesn't drop that extra bit in it will push the crank forward and wipe out the thrust bearing.
it's also possible the thrust bearing wasn't installed correctly.

your flakes look a lot like the thrust bearing out of my buddies freshly rebuilt eclipse with 250 miles on it. his also ate the crank and block down, but they were able to salvage the block while the crank was toast.
his failed because he didn't torque the main pully on correctly and it came loose and while it was trying to push forward it was pushing the crank toward the trans.

-nate

 

Man I am so sorry...take a break and go back at it fresh in a month or so ....J

 

That stinks. If you end up needing a crank I have good one you can have although the shipping would be steep.

 

TIME Out...

Don't be so hasty there champ. Is the oil residue in the tray like the rest of the oil??? Unless you can get a pile to stick to a magnet it may be fine. You can call me if you like since you still should have my number. Most guys will tell you to have someone else do your first oil change and THEN pay attention to what the oil looke like. Brass could just be from the distributor gears. Aluminum from the rods and cylinder heads around the valve spring pockets.

 

Re: TIME Out...

Like Rick says" don't get your panties in a bunch" just yet.Its common to have blivits in the oil on first oil change,everything is breaking in,rings seating,valve springs rubbing,guides,bearings,etc.If oil preeure is still good and no funny noises or obvious power drop,I'd change oil and run for a little more and recheck oil.Some times the system 1 filters are scary since you see every little thing,if you had a standard filter you never would have had any concern.

 

Lots of good points here. I've been down the 'new 455, metal in oil' road twice (in a row)... its sucks. BUT--if you used any break-in additives, assembly lubes, etc the oil is going to look a little funky.

Throw some fresh oil in there with a new filter and after some run time, repeat.

I changed the oil in my latest 455 a good 5 times before I let it go into regular intervals... call me excessive, but with my luck I wasn't taking any chances.

Good luck!:beers2:

 

I would first try to measure your thrust clearance. If you don't know how, find someone who can. Depending on what it was clearanced at to begin with, if it is over .010 or .012, my uneducated opinion would be that you could be in trouble. I am no expert, but the milky oil, could be a sign of another problem, like coolant in the oil. That will destroy a lot of things as well. I personally do not like the sliver like particles in your oil drain pan. A copper sheen is bad enough. All I am saying is, do some tests to find out what is wrong, or not wrong with your engine, before you push it too hard. If your oil pressure is stable and within spec, and your engine is not making noise, it could be a thrust bearing. Good luck, I know how you feel.

Regards, John.

 

When i did mine it had a metalic paint look also on the brake in oil. i changed the oil 3 times with in a 500 mile range and the first was 50 miles.cut the oil filter open that will tell the real story and let you know if you have anything to woory about.

 

Good luck Andy,
Maybe your luck is better than mine....:ball:

 

well guys; Hector, Steve, Steve, C9, Nate, Sootie, Doug, Rick(I almost called you but I was too upset), Gary, Ed, John, defan and Jason, I really appreciate all the kind words and advice. The engine sounded great and ran great and oil pressure was great too. When I changed the oil after cam break in, it was clean. I first saw the gray oil on the dipstick. It was not milky oil it was very fine metal. It looked exactly like the oil did when my 350 cam ate itself to bits. Then I pulled the system 1. Then I draned the oil and dumped in 2 quarts of clean oil with the plug out and watched what cam out of the oil pan. Lots of gray. You guys have no idea how much I hate to pull this engine.

The not knowing got to me and I decided to pull the engine tonight. I got halfway through it and ran out of patience. I plan to finish the job and find out what went wrong tomorrow. I hope you guys that said it might not be anything are right. Either way I will find out tomorrow unless some kind of emergency comes up.

I must get my Buick back on the road ASAP. That thing was so damn fun to drive with that 455!

 

BABY BABY BABY!!! :TU: :beers2: :3gears:

finished pulling the engine this morning. Pulled the pan and there it was. The windage tray was broken on two of its mounts and was rubbing two rods. I pulled every rod bearing and mains 1-4 and they're all sweet! Cam looks fine too. Motor looks very clean as well except for the tray and the oil pickup. I am psyched!

Before the rebuild, when I disassembled the engine I bought used, I found the windage tray only held in with one bolt and cracked in two places. I noticed the cracks when I was about to install it so I welded them up. Good as new. NOT. My welds held just fine but it cracked in two other spots.

Lesson learned : Never, ever, repair a damaged windage tray.

 

Wow, that must have been an enormous relief. I happy for you. Now get that thing back in the car.......yahoo!:3gears:

 

good news.... :TU:
​

 

Awesome news!

 

You're the one in a million that has the luck, my friend! Cheers! :beer














...no, literally I just cheers'd my screen with a Blue Moon LOL