Any Help From The Buick Number Experts Out There Would be Greatly Appreciated

Discussion in 'The "Paper Trail"' started by jwbartel, Aug 26, 2020.

  1. jwbartel

    jwbartel Member

    Ok, Back in 1990 a gentleman whos cars I work on purchased a 1971 stage one convertible. Now that alot of time has passed and we are now in 2020 we never have had any question about authenticity. I recently have helped him put car up for sale. I recently have shown the car a few times to interested buyers. The question I have is with the vin # on the block. I took a razor blade to the front block area to confirm numbers. The casting number on block is correct and everything else on car is correct. But the numbers on front of block do not start with a 4. They also are not the correct size stamp. The size and style of the "type" matches the stamp between the cylinders. I have added a image of the stampings from behind power steering pump bracket. I cannot figure it out. First of all, very strange job stamping, two zeros over lap. Second back in late 80's and early 90's why would you try to fake numbers this bad if thats whats going on and the cars were not selling for the money they do now. Any help/Input from the Buick community would greatly help me validate this car and put this to rest. 20200824_164445.jpg
     
  2. flynbuick

    flynbuick Guest

    Are there any other stampings in the same area? It could be a service replacement factory block to which the particular VIN was added.
     
  3. Nailhead in a 1967

    Nailhead in a 1967 Kell-Mnown Wember

    never seen a vertical stamped (partial) vin before

    VIN vertical.jpg
     
    Mike Sobotka likes this.
  4. Duane

    Duane Member

    Me either. That is not the way the replacement engine numbers were stamped. They used a different numbering sequence for that.

    Jim, have you ever seen numbers stamped like that before?
    Duane
     
  5. BUQUICK

    BUQUICK I'm your huckleberry.

    So is the car an early or late production '71? According to Jim's article only the earlier "738" blocks are on the driver's side and the later "861" castings had it on the passenger side. I know all of our '72s have it on the passenger side.

    http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/400-430-455-block-id-prep-and-oiling-mods.214613/

    The most suspicious thing is the vertical front stamping. But if the block is a early "738" block and these are the only numbers stamped in this location, that helps a person believe it could be original. We all know that there are examples of exceptions to the rule out there because they did some strange stuff at car factories to get the product built. However, a lot can be done to a car in the decades after it was built. The more rare or valuable a collector car is, the more likely that someone will be tempted to try to fake something by restamping, especially if there is no other documentation available to prove, or disprove the car.

    Is there any other documentation with the car to document that this is an original Stage 1? or maybe a BB or OW TH400 transmission with a correct VIN stamped into it?
    Is the engine code still stamped on the block deck?
     
  6. Duane

    Duane Member

    You could also look at the date codes on the block to see if it is from the right time period.
     
  7. jwbartel

    jwbartel Member

    Thanks guys. Yes trans. has correct numbers and also block deck still has the correct two letters. I at first looked at just casting numbers on back of block and not date codes. I will check that out tonight.
     
  8. BUQUICK

    BUQUICK I'm your huckleberry.


    Can you get a photo of the 2 letter code on the deck so we can see if it is inthe customary location and has the normal font style and size?
     
  9. jwbartel

    jwbartel Member

    Here is a image of the TS code on top of block by rear cylinders on drivers side. The S is weak on bottom side but it is there. I also checked casting numbers and they are correct. So it is for sure strange.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Stage 2 iron

    Stage 2 iron 472 IRON HEAD STAGE 2

    Here's pictures of a numbers matching 71GS 455 convertible Vin number, engine code and Cowl Tag. Hopefully this can help, stampings on your block are nowhere near correct. IMG_4308.JPG IMG_4309.JPG IMG_4310.JPG IMG_4308.JPG IMG_4309.JPG IMG_4310.JPG
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
  11. 72STAGE1

    72STAGE1 Runnin' with the Devil

    I honestly have never seen the 2 letter engine code so neatly stamped on a Stage 1, but again with 1971 being a Strike year at GM, who knows when it comes to a lot of things?
     
  12. 69 GS 400

    69 GS 400 Well-Known Member

    Probably stamped by a white collared management dude during the strike that had never held a mallet in his life. I'm sure he went home at the end of the day for a massage at the end of the shift. Told his sympathetic wife , " I'm sore and tired. Been building cars all day. "
     
    Dano likes this.
  13. Dan Healey

    Dan Healey Well-Known Member

    I suggest you take clear pictures of the trans stamps for us to see. There is nothing I see correct with the block stamp. Do you have any documentation IDing it as a stage1?
     
    Mike Sobotka likes this.
  14. Storm1

    Storm1 Silver Level contributor

    Either the guy was drunk, or someone tried to re-stamp my block.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. 72STAGE1

    72STAGE1 Runnin' with the Devil

    The bottom picture deck stamping is on the completely wrong side of the block or between the wrong cylinders.....hard to tell.
     
  16. Storm1

    Storm1 Silver Level contributor

    On mine?

    It's on the drivers side between 1 and 3 cyl.
     
  17. 72STAGE1

    72STAGE1 Runnin' with the Devil

    Exactly.......I’m wrong. I was thinking of the Stage 1 and engine code number being between 3-5 sorry! I blame it on age......lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
  18. Dan Healey

    Dan Healey Well-Known Member

    Kevin, both are all factory and correct. Sometimes they hit the stamp 2-3 times if some digits weren't legible and getting the stamp exactly lined up to hit again must have been difficult to say the least.
     
  19. Dan Healey

    Dan Healey Well-Known Member

    41H103948.jpg 4  TD 012.jpg

    Look how close your marks match mine. What is your fisher body date, 8E? Mine is 9B. The reason I ask, somewhere between your build and mine, the assembly line incorporated a straight line holder for the digits.
     
  20. Storm1

    Storm1 Silver Level contributor

    Yep 08E

    Thanks Dan!
     

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