BPG Nationals

Final say

The post referenced in the thread was very finite. That is the reason for so much reactivity. It didn't appear to be negotiable. We will be awaiting your decision.

Steve & Leanne

 

Re: Final say

Activity is good, all comments are good. If people didn't care they wouldn't respond and that would make us worry. It is just that once the hotel info was released it started a shark frenzy of wanting information, a little bit more than what we expected, but don't get me wrong, IT'S GOOD. Steve and Leanne I am clearly aware of your concerns and we do not want to omit anyone if at all possible.

All final info wil be posted on the BPG Board with a link to the V-8 Board.

Thanks again and also hope to see you two again at Norwalk.

Rick

 

Tbucket

Do you know why there was a frenzy? Because people are so looking forward to this...me included. I have a calendar at work that I mark the days off counting down to this event. I don't want to watch....I have a racecar. I want to race. Leave me out of the show if you need to. Just let me run the bracket I belong in based on ET. No more, no less.

Leanne

 

Leanne, please relax.... I was already working on something the last 3 days, before this topic was even started by Steve. All further info will be found on the BPG board, and discussion will commence there when the info is released. I can safely say you'll be playing somewhere...

Jim

 

excellent.. glad we got this worked out.. hope to see you all there... this outta be fun heheh

 

Steve..

Let me explain... a little "behind the scenes info"

Our topic of dicussion was concerning mainly Turbo Cars, with motors other than the V-6, and the discussion (or possibly heated argument) was concerning "if we let a Olds EX-pro stocker with a Turbo motor in, then how is that any more of a Buick than a 7 second Regal with a Twin Turbo SBC.

Motors are not race cars... they are parts of the car.

That being said, one of the my very first experiences with Buick drag racing was with Steve Dooley, who had a Altered very much like Leanne's..

With a 455.. ran 9.60's like clockwork, and he won everything in sight.. One year, he PAINTED 9.61 on the little 1 gallon gas tank on the front of the thing..

Would we want Steve to come to the event, if he were still with us.. YOU BET!

Just as much as we want you and Leanne there..

Unforturnately Steve passed away about a dozen years ago.

As the sitting Chairman of the Board of the club, I can tell you that you certainly will have a place to race.. and will be welcomed to come on out.. in fact you and Leanne will be missed if you don't come..


Now, in trying to "Keep it simple" we just shot out a "has to be Buick Engine and Body" deal, from the hip.. and that is the basis of the posts made concerning that. You can clearly see from Jim's post, that we were nowhere near finalized on all the other possiblities. There are Pontiacs with Buick engines from the factory, and cars like yours, and we need to discuss how to include them, while still giving "a nod" to the guys who have Buick Red running thru their viens, and did anything it took to have both the Buick engine and body. Not that they are any better than any other club member, but I do think we should reconginze the effort made, and restrict some of the classes, as has been done before, in most of the events that have been held.

The thing that really bothers me is that you could have reminded us that we just seemingly excluded you and your wife.. with a simple email, to any one of the board members..

You know, there are a lot of folks here, busting their humps, for not a penny in return, to make this whole deal happen.. and we are far from perfect, that is for sure..

But give us "a nod" here for actually making the effort, and grow with us.. Skipping that simple step of contacting one of your directors, of your club, and just coming on here with both barrels blazing, really complicates an already daunting task..

And "letting me have it" with this post, really hurts me personally.. now, if you had contacted me, or one of other directors, and were told to "go fish" then by all means, excerise your right to come on here or the BPG board, and let us have it.

That is how this club is different from any other one, and as long as I am involved with the running of it, that is the way it will stay. We work together as a Group.. hence that part of the name.. Not one guy, not 6, but all of us.. You and Leanne, as original members of the club, are certainly part of that group.

The simple fact that I am here, posting this, past midnight, after a 14 hour day at work, proves that fact.

It would have been pretty easy for me to turn of the computer and go to bed tonight, but I am sitting here writing this for YOUR benefit.. as one of the members of Our club. and it will be almost 1 am when I post this, due to the fact that every time I turn around these days, I have to make sure I don't inadvertanly piss someone off, and then get to watch these folks that I once considered friends badmouth me, on the very board that exists because I had an idea, and then made it happen and a whole bunch of other folks said "good idea.. how can I help.. but it seems these days that everyone has an axe to grind, and it keeps me from answering a lot of questions on the board these days.. Because I never have been a "walk on eggshells" politician..

The love of this hobby, is what drives this deal in the first place, and makes me sit here and answer thousands of emails a year (over 6000 last year..) with more than 80% of them wanting just some free advice.. and if I, as a Buick guy, can help another fellow Buick guy out, then I do it.. even if some folks are gonna get pissed off.. for one reason or another..

And if a member of the club that I went waaaaaaaay out on a limb to talk to the right folks to make it happen in the first place has a serious issue on their mind, then you can bet that I will be the first to help work thru that issue.

I would like all of you to keep that in mind, before jumping to any premature conclusions..

Now.. back to the directors forum on the BPG board for me.. to express my views for participation in particular classes at the nats, for particular makes/engines ect.. and trust me, we are having a pretty good debate on it, and it will be decided with a democratic vote.. between the elected members of the board of directors.

For the record, my stand on the issue is that we restrict both the Quick 8 and the S-16 to Buick Body, Buick engine/ or any aftermarket version of said motor, and to allow any "manufactured vehicle" in that class.. "Manufactured vehicles" would be a dragster or Altered, built on a custom tube chassis, with a replica body.

The Bracket classes would require at least a Buick engine, or body..

That's my vote, but I am only one of 6, and it may not go that way. Jim Haas, as the event director, has the final say, should we deadlock in the vote.

But your concern here has gotten us to re-think the whole issue.. and that my friend, is the difference between the Buick Performance Group, and the "others"..

And doing this in the manner you did, has made this no more of an issue than if you would have simply emailed me, or picked up the phone.. I would have said.. "OH Crap... well, forget that plan, we can't leave Steve and Leanne out.."

The only thing this post really did was throw mud at a bunch of guys who spend a lot of their own time to do something nice for the community.

And that is what really troubles me..

WE need to work together, not fight..

Thanks..

JW

 

Jim,
I want you and all the founders to know that I DO appreciate what you did by starting this club. I know a lot of you made sacrifices of not only time but also money to make it happen. It just discourages me when I see a post by the race director that is fact, not open to interpretation. The only area that the post Jim made that was open was the show class for Street Rod/ Conversion cars. His post stated that the race classes were Buick Bodied/Body Powered Only. That is what upset me. It seemed as though no thought was given to anything other than that. As to the Buick "purists" with Buick red running through their veins. Sorry, but in a race class such as the Q16 it just doesn't exist. It can't exist purely by the fact that Buick never supplied the parts to make the cars run that fast. The only purists I would even consider being that are those that run completely stock cars -Buick only parts. Splitting hairs ? Maybe, but just the facts.

I am a dyed in the wool Buick person. I have been building,driving and racing Buicks for 36 years. Do I consider myself a Buick purist? I would like to think so, but I can't simply by the fact that I have aftermarket parts in my motor and run a Chevy rearend in my car. My family always teased me that the first three words my kids learned were Mommy, Daddy, and Buick.

As to a personal attack on any of you I don't feel I did that. Nor would I. I sat with you 2 years ago at Norwalk and we talked about this club before it was ever in existence. I liked what I was hearing. And I am thankful for the handful of you that took it on to start it. I really consider all of you friends and friends don't attack friends.

Was I upset by Jim Haas' post? You betcha! I brought this to the open forum because his rules were posted as an open forum. What is the club if not the members?

Did we feel excluded? Sure and you would have too if it would have been your car that was being dropped from the program.

I really don't understand why a T, a dragster or a Grand Prix cannot run a regular bracket class, without being shoved aside in a bastard child class by itself. As long as it is Buick powered. Bracket classes should only be separated by ET breaks and electronics. Not by body. Because if that is the case then the only cars that will be allowed will be Buick body. No T's, dragsters, corporate car with Buick motors, or any other car sold by Buick but not manufactured by them. And I don't think we want the club to take that stance. Or do we?

I hope you understand my feelings about this. I didn't throw mud at anyone. I made a statement in response to a post by the event director because it seemed pretty set in stone. If these were not the final rules then they should have never been posted.

I apologize if I have offended anyone. We just wanted to race and enjoy the whole event.

 

while we're kinda on the topic... how strict will the rules be for cars without cages and safety precautions? Dr. Speed (already mentioned) has a 1997.5-2004 style regal gs that's running 11's now... he doesn't have a cage... he says he's coming with or without doing a lot of racing but i was just curious how strict its gonna be...

 

I can appreciate this being a V8 Buick bulletin board, but we will only be answering any further event question's on the BPG board, as they pertain to the BPG event In Salem, Ohio.

There are 3 categories there to choose from, to ask questions pertaining to the club or the event. Whomever is responsible for the particular question, will answer it there within 24 hours or so. Having multiple places that questions are being asked is confusing, at best.

thanx for your understanding,

Jim Haas
BPG Event Director

 

As most of you know me, I am what some of you call "opinionated" (and I know some of you call me "other things", too, but that's all right! We understand each other, for the most part.:grin::TU: ), and while this is the BUICK "PERFORMANCE" GROUP, and not the BUICK "APPEARANCE" GROUP, I would have to agree with Steve and Leanne, and everyone who has "similar" concern!

How about the "GN Powered COBRA"? That would not be allowed to run, if it attends either, then, correct? It's also a FORD body, even though it's BUICK POWERED!

(Geez, who woulda thought I'd be sticking up for Fords AND "Turbo" cars?:eek2::laugh: )

Oh, and "CHEVY 12 Bolts" were Factory BUICK in the '70 (Canadian) Skylark Convertibles!:Smarty::moonu: :laugh:

It's ALL "BUICK", though, when it comes down to it!:bglasses::TU:

It'll all work out, guys! RELAX! DISCUSS it, but don't ARGUE about it! That's WHY "Clubs" FALL APART (no example necessary:Brow: )! "WE" (the BPG) is JUST GETTING STARTED! It IS important, as JW said, to WORK TOGETHER!!!

Just BE THERE!!!:TU:

STEVE, sounds like we do have a lot in "common" (not just Buicks, but also our Personalities are similar:TU: )! I, for ONE, respect your integrity on this matter!:TU:

 

After reading all these posts it seems like not everyone is welcome. I can't believe how people are reacting by not letting a group of individuals participate in the events. I can understand to a point how people want "full bred" Buicks, but you have to realise the people who want to join in the festivities that aren't 100% Buick are doing so out of respect for the Buick name. How is the BPG going to grow if you don't put out the welcome mat? Have any of you thought by allowing these people to participate, they might actually get involved with Buicks in the future? You have all these people wanting to join in and you're basically shutting them out. What I see in these posts is if you're not 100% Buick, you're either discriminated against or segregated by having to run in another class by itself, and what fun is that? Heck, when I had my '97 Trans-Am WS-6 I went to the Super Chevy show in Maple Grove, PA and I was asked to show the car! The guy even photographed it cause he liked it so much. They welcomed me even though the only piece of Chevrolet relation was the LT-1 engine and drivetrain. Right there shows a class act of how people who take their time out to show respect by attending an event should be treated, no matter if it has a non-Buick body/Buick motor or vise-versa.

 

I hate to say it, but Buick people can be a little out there when it comes to brand loyalty. I understand that the club is about Buick performance, but why go out of your way to alienate someone? I say let everyone in that has a Buick or corporate Buick engine. Rob has an excellent point- it's all about buick fans!
What does it matter if a non Buick-bodied car wins a bracket race anyway? It says absolutely nothing about the car. Bracket racing is all about the skill of the driver, and how well they know their car, whatever it is. There is no inherent advantage with one brand of car over another.
My friend that has a camaro (SBC powered) has commented many times on how wierd some of the Buick people are about their brand loyalty- that it's almost religious at times (more like obnoxious). It gives us all a bad name when we get all freaked out at the details of the cars, or talk down about other brands. I'm not saying to let other-powered stuff run at this Buick event, but it's a little haughty to discriminate against anything that' s not "pure Buick", to the point that you don't allow something with a Buick motor (complete with Poston BUICK valve covers hanging out there for all to see) to run with the rest of us. So, would you not allow Tommy Ivo in with his cars to race?
I will continue to build and appreciate Buicks (because that's what I like), but I will also distance myself from people or a club that takes this type of judgemental position, because it isn't representative of what the hobby is about, in my opinion.
Since I don't believe that most people in the club are this way, I don't want to throw out my BPG membership or anything like that. It would be a shame to let the politics of something like this destroy a good thing. At the same time, if it really is a club by and for the Buick enthusiast, we need to keep those who are making the rules in check, and make sure it is representing us as a membership.
Just thought I'd speak my peace. It's good to have an open discussion, in my opinion. Moving it over to the bpg forum seems a little like damage control (or covering your arse for what you said earlier). Maybe some of this stuff needs to be reviewed before releasing it to a public forum?

 

Steve, to my knowledge NOBODY has been told they can't come. I also stated earlier your mother WAS welcome with the T bucket, so who got alienated ?? Whats your point ??? This topic has gotten way, W_A_Y out of control, totally blown out of proportion. This is absolutely ridiculous.......... you want to keep me in check, then take over my FREE position.

Jim

 

woah... easy guys... the past 3 comments weren't really needed at all... first, it seems you guys didn't even read the last big post by Jim Weise.. he explained things are STILL BEING WORKED ON.. meaning they aren't set in stone... and we got to the point where hey, we recognize this, now you two come in blind after the fact, probably didn't read the full thread before posting and now you're just gonna piss people off.. not good... i'm not even a damn BPG member yet, i will be, but right now i'm in a money crunch.. so i haven't gotten the check in the mail yet.. but dammit guys... the pot shots aren't needed... they said they're working on accomodating people.. whats the fuss about? the beginning ya, we didn't know if the problem that started this was official... it was made by an "official" person but it was shot from the hip and wasn't aimed real well... so we got the real truth in that its still being worked on.. you got a problem? talk to the board, they would rather hear it from you than to see a thread on it and the flaming getting outta control... if you STILL have a problem... TALK TO THEM... make sure the answer they give you directly is what you do or do not want... if its not what you want.. THEN YOU BITCH... now is not the time guys... its not even official and no new announcements have been made.. so wait it out and freakin get off your soap box until then... i agree, this is outta control... stop yer whining until the official announcement has been made... in the mean time, feel free to email or contact the board and tell them your opinion in a polite and curtious manner... if your voice wasn't heard and you aren't happy with it.. then afterwards you bitch... but you still have to realize that decisions will be made that do not benefit you... sometimes things don't go your way, its the same as any law that gets passed in the US... the people we vote for to represent us... if you don't like your representation then when its time to vote again, thats when you figure out who you think will represent you the best... this is a club.. where the board is not getting paid to do it, they're doing it to make the buick community better... why not HELP THEM rather than get in their way? seems self destructive to me to do anything but help them... money isn't always the answer... time is money, but maybe instead of your money, you give them your time? thats what will ultimately keep this together.. people's time.. not the money..

so please... even though i'm not a bpg member... try to understand a little of what i said... we're friends here.. we aren't out to alienate anyone, we're here to help each other and have fun... voice your opinion to the board first, if they don't atleast consider your point of view then you have a problem maybe.. but you won't always get your way either... you sometimes have to say "ok, it didn't work out for me this time, how can i make it better for me next time?" ... getting pissed isn't going to get anyone anywhere.. it just causes problems... keep it civil.. lets have fun... appologize to those who you may have insulted... and mean it... we aren't a bunch of children here.. lets enjoy this


EDIT:
my intention was not to make anyone mad... or attack anyone specifically.. i just want everyone to know.. things are changing... voice your opinion to the board... they represent you.. US.. so lets stop the arguing.. and show Salem Ohio what a great bunch of people we are and how incredibly cool buick power is!

 

Hi Steve JR. Jim H. was asking to move this dicussion to the BPG site as we wanted all pertinate info and discussions to be held on the BPG for a purpose, to free up space hear on V8 .com and to get more people to that site to read all BPG info, nothing more than that. sure look forward to you and your folks making the Norwalk event as well as the BPG Nats. as all things will work out for the better, everyone interperets things a little different, were trying the best we can, and yes maybe we released some info prematurely that was not completely gone over with a fine tooth comb.
Please all, let's look forward to the BPG Nats and yes things will change in the coming days, or weeks, the BPG boardmembers are working hard to make this come to fruition, and it WILL with your support and patience.

let's all step away from the computer for a bit, have a nice Chilly Brew!:beer


Thanks Bruce

 

Here is a question....


Is Mike from T/A bringing the wagon or will he be driving the Oldsmobile disguised as a Buick?o No:


Take Care

 

ask at the BPG Forum.. lets move this over there..

 

The Buick World is small, so

I've read some of what has transpired in the last couple of days about who can race at the BPG Nats at QC and who can't or whatever, as I don't have time to follow the whole ordeal, but it seems to me that anyone with a Buick powered whatever, ought to be allowed to race at the BPG Nats. Now the decision is what is a Buick powered whatever, could be a new Monte, Bonneville, Park Ave, Camaro or Firebird and others! Now the decision to be made is where to draw the line, going with only Buick bodied, Buick powered in the slower classes, yet letting Buick Bodied chevy powered in the Q16 is a major contratiction in the BPG motto, I think! Any Buick powered, whatever body should be allowed, if we are to gain membership and support of the rest of the drag race world, then we need to include any and all Buick powered race cars, as the little dogs in Buick racing, most likely have Big Dog Buick racing in their future, cause they know what they like to do, and do it well! Kick ass! RV

 

Should I quote the post that said ONLY BUICK POWERED AND BODIED VEHICLES could participate?

Shoved into another class lumped in with other makes of cars? There was a statement posted, with specific language used.
All I was doing was stating my opinion. The fact that it's my mom's car really doesn't make a difference. I am a member of the bpg. I don't like this attitude where a few of you "big dogs" decide what goes and what doesn't, without any say from those of us who are members. I've heard that's what goes on with the GSCA. I expected more of this club. I am not trying to be critical, but you pushed me into this post. I responded calmly with my opinion about the whole thing, and you took it very personally. Sorry to tell you, but when you set yourself up in a leadership position, you are open for criticism from those you are leading. it goes with the territory. If you don't like it, maybe someone else is better off in that position. I'm not the one who set myself as a leader, so don't give me that line.
Kyle,
When you become a moderator, then you can tell me what to say, and where to say it. Until then


:moonu:

That's all I have to say (actually, i was done on my last post, until it got personal).

 

How about a class for big dummys?