Got the motor back. Head assembled with oversize valves and unassembled block work total came to $2200 A lot of money in my opinion. Then I get the block back to my shop and find that the cam bearings are not clocked at 3 and 7, the cylinder bores have rust in them and the cross hatching is inconsistent. They also staked in front oil galley plugs into my freshly drilled and tapped block when I specifically said leave them out I'll put plugs in. I'm a little worried about the cam bearings and the crosshatch. They didn't have a torque plate so maybe that's part of it. I'm wondering if these issues are enough to take the block to another shop to have it evaluated (more money just to have it looked at) and then get a receipt for cost to fix it and bring that to the original machine shop. I just don't want to start all over with this. The machining process has been my least favorite part of this whole car build so far.
Feel your pain Jacob. Frustrating when you don't get what you ask for. I'm guessing this shop does not do much Buick work. Those TA back grooved cam bearings must be installed correctly.
Lack of effort for their time. They rushed a job to collect. Crosshatch should cross. I would take it back . wait for it also.
Do I really want to worry about having them do it twice or do I cut my losses and bring it somewhere that will do it right. I have a friend bringing his Pontiac 455 to Ceralli racing engines in New Jersey after he just spun a rod bearing. I hear the guy is expensive but does awesome work. I thought about bringing him the block and having it checked out. Maybe write me up an estimate for having it checked out and fixed. Bring that receipt to the original shop and see what they say
That block looks horrible, that shop should be embarrassed to send out shoddy work like that! The block isn't even cleaned, WTF? Looks like it was only sent through a jet washer no hot tank or not cooked and shot blasted(the way Engine Craft does it who I use for machining). There shouldn't be any paint left on the block, it should be bare clean cast iron without the anti-freeze staining in the water ports! And are they morons over there, when you see the oil galleys hole tapped you don't stuff and stake plugs in them! A boosted build needs to be torque plate honed, if the shop didn't have one they should of made, bought or borrowed one to do that block! Odds are that the bores are inconsistent, probably tapered and probably oversized because shoddy work like that will never leave material in the bore so it can be corrected because their thinking is if its bigger the pistons will go in but not if the bores are smaller. If they tried to charge me $2,200 for crap work like that I would definitely not pay them and would insist on them replacing the block so I could take it to a competent shop to have it machined! Granted more than half of the cost was probably from the heads, but when you see work like on the block that chances are not good for the heads being done right either and you should ask for replacement heads as well! A quick check of the heads would be a straight edge placed across the valve tips to see how close they are in relation to each other. Sounds like that is a machine shop to be avoided to me, or am I just spoiled because Dave at Engine Craft is such a perfectionist? To bad you didn't take pics and post them before you picked up the block it could of saved you some cash? So now you need to have the bores measured by a competent shop to see if there is enough material in them to correct them to the finish needed for your steal rings you need for boost to seat. Looks like they honed the lifter bores as well, that WILL effect the oil pressure if they honed them to big if they did hone them like it looks like in the pic? Also the head work they did will be suspect, at this point I doubt that the valve tips are anywhere close to be at the same height and I hope you didn't have this shop install hardened seats in the heads, that will open up a whole other set of problems if the head guy is the same guy that did the block! Sorry for the rant, but it just pains me to see good people get taken with bad work like this, I'm sorry you have to deal with this. At this level of build the machining is the foundation that will make or break the build to go from hero to zero in 2 seconds flat with a knock, knock, knock. I wish you the best of luck getting this sorted out, looks like you could be delayed sorry to say and sorry to see what they did to your block. Hopefully the block looks better in person than the pic does. GL Derek
It wouldn't hurt to contact this shop, they'll probably look at the block no charge or a very small fee I would think. Its not rocket science to setup a bore gage to measure the bores. The big cost will be the corrective machining if the block isn't scrap because the lifter bores are out of spec? If the shop is any good the little bit extra cost is a lot cheaper than having the job done twice. I can't say you get what you pay for because you obviously didn't. If the bores need more taken out than the size of your piston tolerance you can have them coated so you don't have to buy a new set, depending on the cost of a new set or if you can send the set you have back and get the next size up maybe? I would doubt that the deck is square to the mains if you had them do that as well so have that checked too. Derek
For 2200 that should have covered assembly too. They are a rip off shop. Do minimum but ask premium dollars recheck everything they did and make them correct it the post their bad work on anyplace that lists their name..
I havent paid a dime yet. Due to a weekend upgrade my bank is going though I can't take any cash out until tuesday and this machine shop wont take a card. So they told me take the block and bottom end so I can get going with it and they have the heads, rockers and intake until I pay. I should have looked the block over thoroughly while I was there but I was in a rush and it was bagged up so I didnt look at it until I got home. The galley plugs caught my eye first, then the cam bearings upset me. Then my friend who is an experienced engine builder pointed out that the bottom half of the cylinder has a horrible hone job just by glancing at it. Monday (If they are open) or Tuesday I'll take a trip to Ceralli and see what he says. I just can't afford the $2000 or $3000 it would take to do this over, nor can I justify that kind of cash on what is, essentially, a mild close to stock shortblock. I also don't think its fair, or wise to refuse to pay any money. That's why I'll get a second opinion, have an estimate written up and use that an an argument point to maybe split the difference on machine work. I doubt I'll get that lucky, but if these guys truly aren't out to screw anyone, maybe in some strange universe we can come to an agreement that the work was subpar and go our separate ways with a hefty discount on the bill.
Have the other shop go over the work that was done and have them give you a written estimate to fix the what looks like crappy machining. Hopefully your pistons weren't pressed on the rods yet so you CAN return those for the next size up or you'll need another block, pistons or have the pistons coated. It would help if you have the estimate include what the following measure, bore diameters, taper and roundness of bores along with how square the block's deck measures and the cost to correct everything. Also have the shop write how good or bad the bore finishes are for breaking in rings and how much material would need to be removed to correct them. If the 1st shop hung the pistons, they would need to buy you the next size up or pay for coating them so the other shop can take the minimum out of the bores? Also have shop 2 check the lifter bore diameters of the block if shop 1 did actually hone them like it looks like in the pics. If they did hone the lifter bores to far over the block is scrap! And why would you waste the $$$ getting the bigger valves installed when you said you want to upgrade to aluminum heads when they come out? Especially with boost, that cost was probably $500 of the bill right there and the heads could very well be paper weights now by the look of the quality of machining they do! If the block comes back from shop 2 and they say its no good, bring the estimate into shop 1 without the block and explain the situation with a cool head that you can no longer trust their work and see how they react and how they will try to rectify the situation. If they insist that they do good work even with the estimate in your hand just tell them you're not going to pay them and will take them to court, report them to the BBB(the better business bureau, not big block Buick) and go on line to every site you can find on the internet and tell everyone how they do business and now that you have extra time because you don't have a good block to work on that you will picket their store front. A good compromise would be for shop 1 to subtract the cost of repairing the block in shop 2 and letting shop 2 inspect the head work before you pay them for the heads. And for shop 1 to pay for the next size bigger pistons if they hung them already so you can't exchange them. So shop 1 will get paid the leftover difference from taking shop 1's bill and subtracting shop 2's bill for block work repair machining and shop one will get paid for the heads if shop 2 says they are good minus the cost it took for shop 2 to disassemble and inspect the machine work. If the heads need repair or if they're now scrap, shop 1 gets even less payment so the heads can be fixed or they pay you whatever the core charge would be to buy new cores so you can start over. Even though you have the adjustable roller rockers the valve tips still need to be somewhat close to each other so they're not out of range for adjusting them with just one size push rod! Hopefully corrective machining won't be to expensive and the block isn't scrap because of the lifter bores. Sorry you have to deal with this situation and I hope my advise was helpful. GL Derek
I appreciate the advice Derek. I guess I'll find out how bad things are on Tuesday. I do plan on going with the aluminum heads. I just didn't want to throw worn out heads back on this motor while waiting for the aluminum heads. I'm sure it added a bit to the bill but I wanted to do a little bit extra to help things along. If I get bad news I'm not sure what path I'll take. It will definitely push things further back. I don't know much about having the Pistons coated but since they are presses on the rods already that will surely add a little the cost. I would rather not bore the block anymore than the .030 it should be at now unless it's sonic checked. On top of that, off the shelf pistons become harder to find after that. I'd have to go with custom auto tech or racetech pistons which wouldn't be a horrible thing. Cutting my losses and getting another block would be acceptable if I don't have to pay anything for this block as far as machine work already performed. Oh well. Guess I can't over think it too much and just keep pressing on
Who did that? Was it TA when they balanced them? If those are the same rods I sold you I did notice one of them were a few grams heavier than the others so TA must of needed to remove the weight from that end? When connecting rods are weighed to balance them they are weighed on a fixture to be able to weigh each end. I think it is more important that the end weights are closer to each other than total weight. But if the hack shop did that then a little more investigating is in order. Derek
TA did not do this. I don't have pictures of how I received the rods but I can't imagine TA doing shoddy work like that. Look how roughly they were ground down. It's hard to get a full idea in the pictures but I'm pretty sure rough edges and tool marks are not desirable on the con rod big end of a high powered motor
Is there more than one rod like that? If so post some pics in the TA section and ask if that is how they let the rods go after they did what they did to them or was it done after they left there? Its to bad you didn't use the nascar take out eBay rods I have posted before for that level build, there would of been no reason to hack on them like that. I am feeling bad for you on how your project is going! Hopefully you'll have some good news in the coming days! Derek
Like I said I don't think TA did it as I would have noticed that when I got them back. I can call Tuesday and make sure but I'm confident it wasn't them. I think they just resize the rods, check them for straightness and install the arp fasteners. I would imagine to truly balance the rotating assembly correctly it would need to be done as a unit as opposed to just weighing and balancing the rods separately. There are 2 rods that have the big end ground down. Those same 2 and 1 additional rod also had the small ends ground. It's not the fact they were ground that bothers me. It's the way it was done and how they were left that is upsetting. In a milder motor I wouldn't be concerned. In a build that may see the higher end of 500hp it is a concern. Depending on how south this whole thing goes I may find myself assembling a very mild motor with what I have and starting over for the turbo setup....
