That's what Mopar did from the factory. https://www.ebay.com/itm/3850626195...iUPQUqcjr9v8fx4Oddl/4wy1e8|tkp:Bk9SR-bg8oWoYQ
Or one like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3838389926...3amcoXUkQpOE2HyozH4OpzPkQl|tkp:Bk9SR7KukoaoYQ
I noticed that the Baldwin filter has more but smaller oil inlet holes than the Wix. I then measured both sets of holes and figured up the total area for each filter. My concern was that the combined hole area was less for the Baldwin, leading to a restriction and resultant loss of pressure. And while the Wix/Napa does has slightly more area than the Baldwin, both are less than the area of the outlet nipple ID (mine has been slightly opened up). So the holes are not the limiting factor, the nipple is.
I had originally posted up some issues I had with the WIX brand of oil filters. Specifically the two or three piece units for the following vehicles. WIX P/N 51258 for the Buick 455 WIX P/N 51372 for the Ford 6.8L V10 and 4.6L V8 I performed an oil change on three of my vehicles this afternoon. One was the '05 LTC w/ 4.6L V8 using the aforementioned WIX P/N 51372. I'm going to post up two sets of pictures for the two oil filters mentioned above. I hope this clears up where the oil filters I purchased are leaking. First five photographs are of a brand new, unused p/n 51258 for Buick 455cid V8. Using a small funnel that was easily inserted into the center threaded hole. I filled the filter about 1/3 with hot, used motor oil. The air temperature was 60°F, the filter was set in the sun on its side. The oil had 5000 miles on it and was 5W-30. You can tell the filter is unused because you can see the white powder residue on the red, silicone valve. It took less than two minutes for the filter to leak from where I would assume it's not supposed to. The next set of photographs are of the used p/n 51372. A replacement for the Motorcraft FL-820S. I know someone stated they called WIX and spoke with one of their representatives. They stated the anti-drain back valve is meant to keep some oil in the filter. Not so much all of it. Well, there's really no need for an anti-drain back valve when the rest of the filter is put together as these two are. As one will have "some" oil left in the filter after the vehicle sits for a few days. I do have another WIX filter that did not leak at all. I thought I may go ahead and use it. I also felt that since quality control was not that great concerning the head plate of these two filters. Where else has quality control been lack luster? So, I decided not to use it and went with what I've been using for the LTC, and that's an FL-820S. As I said earlier, the used 51372 has 5000 miles on it. While valve clatter was minimal after 24hrs of engine shut down. After a 48hr engine shut down, valve clatter was considerable during first, Monday morning start-up going to work. Previously, when I was using the FL-820S, or any other filter for that matter. There was never any valve/lifter chatter after 24hr engine shut down. In my first post to this thread, I was using a 51258 on the '70 Buick Electra's 455. Getting oil pressure up to snuff, took a considerable amount of cranking the engine w/o the coil wire connected. This after sitting for several days. And yes, the engine has 71,000 or so miles on it. So I'm sure my oil pump may not necessarily be as it was from when new. However, after going to a different oil filter. The extensive engine cranking issue is gone. I did my honest best to show exactly what the issue was/is with the filters in question. I really wanted to use these filters as so many people seem to like them. And I certainly have no axe to grind with WIX. Their oil filters are just not for me. Will the continued use of these filters cause engine issues? Honestly don't know. Really don't want to find out either. Perhaps this will be some useful information for those trying to decide which filter they would choose for their engine. Hope this settles the issue as to where I was referring to the filters leaking. I still have these filters. Not going to throw them out just yet. As you know, the oil filter for the Buick 455 mounts horizontally on the block. Same position as the oil filter used on the Ford 4.6L, horizontal. Paul
While it is disconcerting to see oil pressure lag on startup it might not do any damage as there should still be oil on the bearings. However some of the thinner oils people are running like 5W-30 may drain off the bearings more/faster. Heavier oils may prime slower but at the same time cling to parts more. Double edged sword......
The best case scenario here is that the engine starts and gains oil pressure immediately.. but I would caution against turning it over with the coil disconnected, I have never really seen the value in that, from a wear perspective. Your far better off with a pre-oiling system, if you want to go down that road. I don't like turning it over an not starting it for one simple reason.. the most wear prone area in the engine is the camshaft.. which is splash lubricated, which will not happen at cranking speed.. So you wipe all the oil off the cam/lifter interface.. and then start it up.. But, with work hardened materials, which is what we have in any used engine, I would not lose any sleep over any of this.. Although I do agree with using whatever filter builds oil pressure the fastest after startup. JW
BQUICK, I hear what you’re saying regarding oil weight and bearings. But the extended valve train noise I heard every morning on cold startup after first beginning use of these filters was the disconcerting part for me. Just seemed longer than what I’ve been used to all these years. I use any name brand, full synthetic 5w-30 in the ‘05 LTC and ‘06 F250 w/ 6.8L V10. And Driven 10w-30 (winter months) and Driven 15w-40 (summer months) in the ‘70 Electra. I try to keep all of my vehicles for the long haul. 200,000 miles on the LTC and 167,000 miles on the truck so far. My main concern is dry starts 5-6 days a week. My thoughts concerning an anti-drain back valve are as follows. At some point, an automotive engineer or engineers, recognized a need for keeping oil in a horizontally mounted oil filter so as to somewhat minimize or altogether eliminate the amount of time it took to fully pressurize an engines oiling system after an engine had been shut down for an extended period of time. I don’t see how the oil filters in question help with that. As one poster pointed out, this all may be a big nothing burger. And I’m okay with that. Since I don’t have the space or time to regularly tear down engines for inspection. At least in this instance, I’m going to err on the side of caution. Paul
Jim, Thanks for the heads up on manner in which camshaft is lubricated. I got my start-up procedure from someone on the board here. I’ll change the way I start up my sleeping Buick. It was just that when I first got the Electra, the oil light went out immediately after I released the key during cold startup.The car came with a AC Delco oil filter. My first oil change, I couldn’t find the AC Delco filter I needed so, grabbed a WIX. Car started up as it should right after that oil change. The following day, I start it up and the oil light is glaring at me for a very very long time. And every day after until I switched filters. Again, thanks for info on how crankshaft is lubricated. Will discontinue previous method of starting car after sitting for long periods. Paul
I think you will be fine... and thanks for bringing this issue with Wix filters to light.. I personally have just thrown in the towel with these throw away filters, and every engine that leaves here now will be equipped with some sort of cleanable filter. I think we need to control the things we can.. and the quality of an oil filter can change overnight, without you knowing.. Cleaning most of the re-useable filter requires nothing more than a drain pan and a can of carb spray or brake cleaner, and you can save money and it's better for the environment, so it's a win-win situation.. I should have went to this years ago.. JW
If you pull the plugs and crank it....not bad....will spin alot faster and no compression load on bearings. Otherwise get it fired up ASAP.
Torqued455, No, not yet. I typically do hot oil changes. Start up and drive, run some errands etc. When I return home, get started on oil change for that particular vehicle. I have the one unused WIX filter for the Buick. It now has some used oil in it from the “test” above. Also have two more WIX filters for the LTC as well. They too have used oil in them from said “test” above. Right now, I’m still in the process of rebuilding the carb for the Buick, so she’s going to be down for a bit. Life keeps me busy, as us all, so working on her’s taken a back seat for now. I have no aversion to using one of the new filters I put a little used oil in for the purpose of discovery. As I said, I kept the filters from the “test”. Give me some time. Won’t be any time soon mind you. But I’ll give that a try and get back. JW, Thanks for the info on reusable oil filters. I’ll have to do some research on those, buy one and give it a whirl. With four cars, one truck in the driveway, two motorcycles and two riding mowers all using oil filters. Reusable oil filters may be a game changer. I’ll definitely be looking into those. Paul
You don't have to change the oil just to check a filter. Pull one off cold after the time frame in which you think is sufficient to cause the slow build of pressure cold and let us know if it's full or not.
Right now, I am using the Hastings/Baldwin B39 filter. I don't have any problems with oil pressure building on a cold start. I have an oil pressure equalization line, and the Autometer gauge connection is towards the back of the line. I have the stock gauge connected at the front of the line. I would think there would be a difference in how quickly each gauge responds given the difference between the locations. I never really paid attention. I would have to try to video a cold start to really see. I mostly use the System1 oil filter, but have it off right now as I ordered some replacement O rings. I can tell you that the system1 filter does NOT have an anti drain back valve as ordered. Years ago, I called them to ask about it. They told me that they do not add that as it increases the restriction to oil flow. They told me they could send me one free of charge, so I took them up on it. I installed the valve, but never really noticed much of a difference on the 2 engines it has been installed on. Here is a picture of the System1 filter components disassembled. This is the anti drain back valve they sent me, It just pushes on at the bottom of the filter body, and the filter element cage retains it at the bottom. I wonder if the reusable filter that Steve Reynolds recommends has any anti drain back features?
Torqued455, I understand, and that is what I was planning on doing. Like I said though, I have a lot going on right now. And while it may not seem like much time involved to perform the test, and it won’t be very involved at all. At the moment, weather, work on our little farm, my paying job and other jobs around the house. I’ll get to it when I can and post up my findings as soon as I can. Please understand, for me, regarding the experiences I’ve had with these filters on two completely different vehicles. My decision to discontinue use of them is settled. a) The Electra - First WIX filter used yields considerably longer time for oil light to extinguish after cold engine startup after 24hr shutdown. Return to filter of original construction. Oil light extinguishes as it did before WIX filter. b) ‘05 LTC w/ overhead cam. First WIX filter yields excessive valve train noise on each and every cold start after 24hr shutdown. Return to previously used make/model filter. Zero valve train noise after every cold engine start after 24hr shutdown. Will get back with results of final test as soon as I can.
Assuming the Wix 51258 went through similar changes as the one in the video, the main changes were the drain back valve (now nitrile rubber instead of silicon rubber), the filter material (now has larger pores as seen under microscope), and the bypass spring (now much shorter). The guy in video makes a big deal about nitrile rubber not being as good as silicone. I’m not convinced of that in an oil filter application at least. I think the main issue is the shorter bypass spring. That may be providing less force against drain back valve which may be major issue. Those were my thoughts at least. But that was a great video and analysis.
I really like your testing. One question though. If it’s the bypass spring that has changed (YouTube video shared about 51040 showed much shorter spring in newer Wix), then would that be engaged the same in your tests as when the oil filter was under operational oil pressures?
Add me to the list of people who will no longer use WIX filters. When I bought my car back in May of last year, I did an oil change before driving it home and used a WIX filter. I noticed the car would have a decent lifter tick for a few seconds on cold start. I attributed it to a lifter that was bleeding down quicker than others at first. Then noticed the car took a few seconds longer to build up oil pressure than I was used to. I used a mobile 1 oil filter for the next oil change after reading this thread. No more lifter tick, oil pressure comes up pretty quickly after startup, even if it sits for a week.
