I was poking around on a Pontiac site and some of the racers were saying that they set up camber different on a race car. Is this straight forward enough that I can give the alignment guy numbers or is it more of a trial and error thing? Also I'm rebuilding the front end on the project car and I'm curious about leaving the suspension a little "loose" for better track manners. I had new upper and lower control arm bushings pressed in today. When I put everything back on should I leave tighten everything to factory specs or should I leave them a little loose for easier release when I launch the car. How loose is enough? Thanks
You are talking about two different topics. On alignment . The car needs to be set up with your weight and fuel in the car and have an alignment guy who knows what he is doing . Standard numbers for alignments actually slow the car down as it goes through its camber curve after launch. These settings are not for a street car for sure . Not even a street strip car. Have you ever seen a car at the dragstip ,after a wheelstand launch ,have the front wheels go all wobbly and stupid? That is a car with the wrong Caster, camber and bump steer settings. The alignment needs to be done with the front slightly up in the air (like when you are accelerating )without sending you into bump steer when you get on the brakes. You should be prepared for a 3 to 4 hour alignment because thats what it takes. There are enough stock and super stock guys in Michigan,that there has to be someone who can help you locally. As far as how to set the front end up loose . In my most recent experience , in my friends stick stocker, we used pinch nuts on all of the a arm attachment points. Half a turn freed everything up so much the arms would "fall" of thier own weight as they wouldnt before . Again--- this is RACE CAR STUFF not street car. As a race car, you are checking everything all the time between races . (your car is not sitting on the trailer between races is it?) If you have ever watched any Cup or any kind of circle track racing , they always talk about the car being "free". This refers to the cars suspension pieces being free enough for them to do thier work. That is what you need to strive for . Get the car to "release" as much stored energy at the hit as possible. This will help it put weight on the rear tires quickly and just accelerate. So loose shocks,weak springs (moroso type), and free suspension arms. My current race car is different. It is a tube chassis car with a bunch of power and a stick. It doesnt need all the suspension movement to work correctly. Plus there is no way to get as much caster as a strut car with stock suspension pieces . Find that old alignment guy, who has been working on rear drivers for 20 years . He's your guy. Good luck with it . I hope this helps a bit . George in DC
Thanks George. I guess I'll have to find a medium point for the alignment because the car will see some street duty. Probably about 75% strip 25% street. I'll check around here and see if I can find a guy that knows what he's doing with this kind of thing. As far as the A-arms go I will try to loosen them just enough to let them fall from their own weight. With the bushings being new I guess I'll have to keep an eye on them. I'm sure they will get even looser as the bushing starts to wear with age. OK time for the dumb question. What is a pinch nut and what does it look like? Thanks
I agree with George, but I can offer some more detail. I've always used the same alignment specs and my cars go real straight. First you have to sit in the car while he's doing the alignment. Also, full of fuel, etc. Put a jack under the front cross member and raise the front up about 2"-3". Align the car using 0* camber and as much NEGATIVE castor as you can get without pulling the camber in. These cars were built to run positive castor at the factory, so there's not alot of room to go the other way. You can usually get about 3*-4* NEG castor on both sides. Then set your toe at around 1/16" toe-in per side. You want just enough to take up the slack in the joints as you go down the track without going toe-out (bad). I don't know how well this will work on the street, but it won't be dangerous. A "pinch" nut is also known as a "deformed lock nut". It looks like somebody squeezed the nut and made it oval. You can also use nylon lock nuts or double-nut it. I used Del-A-Lum bushings on the GS I have now. They are built for low friction and have grease fittings on them. You'll see those alot on the high-end Stock and Super Stockers. They're made by Global West. Have fun.
Jeff and Todd, Thanks for giving the numbers . I have enough in my head already and its been since the eighties that I personally had a stock suspension drag car. I have helped some of my customers and friends on that side of my business but its no longer a big part of what I do anymore. As far as the street , I have always been a stick guy so all my stuff always had a lot of movement in the front --even my backhalf stuff. That would make a tough car to take on an off ramp. Just keep an eye on those fasteners ---three wheels at the track ---not good. Good luck george in DC
Castor I was poking around to see what most people set their castor and camber angles at when I came across this thread. Jeff, do you really set your castor negative? That sounds wrong from my experience. I would think that this condition would make you car wander considerably. A positive castor (upper ball joint leaning towards the rear of the car) will make the car track straighter. Is there something I am missing? I want to know for sure that I am setting my car up correctly. Give me some thoughts on this guys. Thanks!!! Steve
Steve, as much positive caster as you can get is what you want, not negative caster. There was an article in an old issue of Super Stock & Drag Illustrated from the 70s that went through the alignment process on a Camaro, but the basics worked on any unequal length a-arm car. They went so far as to pie cut the upper a-arm to get somewhere around +10 degrees of caster. The more pos. caster you can dial in, the straighter the car wants to go. Mark
When I built my front control arms I moved the lower balljoint forward and the upper reward in order to gain maximum caster.It should be around +12 degrees.I also set up the rack so it has no more than 3/16th bump steer over 5 inches of travel.My total toe in will 1/16 with the front end raised up 2 inches to simulate down track stance. The camber is 0 for 5 inches of travel.You will not be able to gain the same results with out reengineering quit a few things.My suspension is based on the stock suspension but nothing is stock anymore. What you want to acheive is as little toe and camber change as possible over the range of useable travel.
Sorry, Steve. I guess I got my positives and negatives mixed up. What I meant was to put the upper ball joint BEHIND the lower ball joint. If I remember right, this is opposite to what the factory uses. That's why it's difficult to get without messing up the camber. I'm no expert, but my car drives straight and smooth on acceleration and braking. I just tell the guy at the alignment shop what I need, and he makes it happen. Have fun.
Kevin, I need to talk to you about this if I could ???? I am getting ready to do the front of my 67', and need your guiding light of brilliance. HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAAA. Seriously, pm me a number when you could, or send it direct to me at buickdav@yahoo.com . I have it here somewhere, just can't find it now. Need a time best to call too..............
Alignment Thanks guys, I thought I had it right. In fact I slotted the cross shafts toward the front so I can get the max positive castor without effecting the camber too much. That should make the alignment easier because I won't need to keep adding and removing shims to balance the castor/camber specs. I'm shooting for 4 deg. positive because I don't want to take away all of the "feel" with the manual box. Steve
