Enamel/urathane some basics and opinions please....

So far- My friend (almost 3 decades in the biz) has been slowly working on my car for beer $ TU: :beer ) in a neighbors carport while he slowly rebuilds his own destroyed house. (busy,busy,busy)

I have totally gutted the interior and have been slowly making progress on dyeing all parts.

He has stripped the entire car down to bare metal, ground out the old filler, put the good Evercoat filler in its place, and primed it w/ Dupont/ Nasson 2K urathane primero No: ( I know you guys seem to love Epoxy, but this is what he says he has been using and is comfortable with. He contends there will be no adhesion issues).:idea2: WE do intend on sealing prior to paint if that makes a difference.:idea2:

This is the thing. A bc/cc will cost me more $ than I have. I cannot be without a car for the time it will take to save enough $, if ever, anyway.:ball:

He wants to go Acrylic Enamel perhaps w/ a clear coat for depth. It WILL be a metallic color(which- is still undecided).I have had my Regal painted w/ Acrylic Enamel (Dupont Deltron Metallic Firemist poly)and it looked great. After 6 years the hood started to fade from no heat insulation.

I would like your opinion on enamel vs. urathane.Cleared or not and anything else I am to ignorant to ask.ou: He has no problem w/the final cutting and buffing for gloss and knows I would like it tolook veeeery deep:bglasses: . I am wondering cost of ea., how long it will stand up and what mantainance (sp) is needed to keep it that way. It will be my daily driver and in the sun.

Thanks in advance!

P.S.I WILL get to have a hand in the final block sanding!!!! Also another friend is allowing us to use his downdraft booth for the spray. :TU: That's all I can think of for now........:TU:

 

There is no replacement for a $30,000 paint job but Im old school.

Epoxy BHA HUMBUG

Folks have been painting cars for years just fine with out it and show quality too.

Same for all the new fancy paints.
Check out pic of hotrods from the 50-60s even 70s n tell me its no good.


You can clear anything, even 1 stage paint.
You can sand, none sandable primer.

If the cheap paint GM used over the past 100yrs can take engine heat must of been something else???


-------------
Ive done some F'ed up things in the paint both in school where the teacher came in saying " You can't mix that with that, or paint over that."
Always worked out for me. Why I got the do the candy job on his motorcycle.

Though got booted off painting the tool peg board.

 

IDK , but that's the only place where it was fading. o No: 30k on paint!!!!!!ou: If I ever did that-even on a million dollar car , my uncle would turn over in his grave, rise up and beat the $hit outta me.:spank: Then he would take the next year to tear the whole car apart-even if it was for just a fender:shock: . HE was old-school and boy do I miss him. :ball:
Thanks for the encouragement!:TU:

 

Its good you got folks old in the biz to asorb from.

Tired of these kids with their $1500 HVLP paint guns and $300 a pint paint thinking they know everything

 

Enamel is a good cheap way to paint a car but urathane will have atlot more gloss to it and will be alot tougher it can hold up to scratches alot better then enamel, a urathane based paint usually isnt not much more money than a enamel, i know with ppg urathane paint, DCC, all you need is a reducer DT870 med. reducer and a hardner DCX61 and with urathane you can put a clear over it to give it more depth and to make it easyer to polish, we painted my dads circle track car with it 3 years ago and it still looks like it was painted last week and its been under some pretty bad condtions between some ugly tracks, crashes, crew guys not being to carefully around it with tools when in a hurry and being towed behind a dullie truck on a open tralier. i think urathane based paint is alot better than enamel.

 

does urethane paint have a probem with spider-webbing or cracking over time?

 

When you say you're using a metallic, plan to wet sand, and want a deep look...that pretty much requires you use clear. It's tough to wet sand a metallic paint and not mess up the finish.
Acrylic enamels are durable. You will have to add a urethane hardener to it for extra durability, to speed cure time, and allow you to wet sand/buff shortly after painting. Without hardener, enamel will take 30+ days to cure enough to be sanded/buffed.
But why bother with enamels when urethanes don't cost much more!
look into the off-brands like Shop Line from PPG, or SPI
http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/homepage.htm
Some use the SPI clears over other brands of bc with good results.

There's a good paint board at
www.autobodystore.com

 

i agree i can sell a onmi base (MBC) and shopline clear at my work cheap... after taxes $204.87 for base coat, reducers, hardener and clear. know lots of people that have painted cars that way and they look really good and hold up alot better that enamel. for freinds i throw in the deltron pearls and really make the colour pop with lots depth for cheap.

 

you can get more done with 2K and bc/cc than using lacquer primer, spot filler out of the tube and acrylic paint. Its not the fact that these young punks are cocky about they're urethane paint and hvlp guns. It no different than getting rid of your tube TV and getting a Plasma, or replacing your tape player for a CD player. It tecnology, You ask anyone who has painted for decades and kept up with the times and I can guarantee 85% of them will tell you it cuts there time and materials in half and the other 15% is to proud to admit it. My dad owned a commercial body shop and hotrod shop for 30+ years and before he passed away I was finally able to start showing him how much better Tecnology was. Now J-POP, I jus recently did an S10 pickup with omni base and Gen-Tec diamond clear, The base was $115 a gallon (for red) and $92 for the clear kit. clear and hardener. I used big montana 2K high build primer that was 96 dollars for the kit which was the primer and catylst. The whole truck, extended cab, jambed and all, every piece was removed and painted inside and out including the inside of the bed took 3/4 of a gallon of base, I put the whole gallon of clear on it:TU: So I don't see any reason you cant do the paint, clear, wetsand and buff supplies for less than $500. Sound like alot of bread, but before you get dissapointed with the acryl pain job look into the omni base and Gen-tec clear. I'm an R-M fan and Glasurit clear fan. Hopfully StratoBlue72 will chime in here too but the luster of a acryl metallic paint job sucks cleared or not.:beers2:

 

I have used the PPG OMNI paint many times with no problems. It is very economical and sprays just as nice as the Dupont Chroma base I have used. If you coat either one of them with a urethane clear, they will easily outlast an enamel paint job. They also spray much easier than an enamel paint job and have great shine and durability. If I was going to take the time to clear coat an enamel paint job, I would opt for the base coat/clear coat urehane-it should not cost much more if you shop wisely for your supplies. I have also used House of Kolor bases and clears with good luck-and they are not priced as high as Dupont either. My local Dupont dealer is a great guy, but the prices on the dupont products have gone through the roof! Check into the Omni-If your painter can spray enamel, He should have good luck with the omni mbc(base/clear).

 

Thanks for the advice guys! $400-$600 is the amount I was thinking of. My pal said a bc/cc supplies would cost over 1k. I've tried to go through "autobody.com", but after 10 or so pages, it kinda blurs together. I take it that acrylic urathane is a better product than the enamel ? All these names of companies and products and sub-products are confusing me. HE mentioned a gloss add.canbe mixed in and even a cc on top of that. Maybe a trip to the store will clear some things up? Thisis the kinda thing that makes me miss my unc.

 

Nothing wrong with enamel it can get you the same job as a Urathane paint . But it does dry slower and its less forgiving than Urathane . Mettalics tend to mottle and drip something that is less seen with a solid color.You can pick up base/clear setups for under $200 at swap meets around here or try ebay . If it gona be outside for the next 6 years I suggest a super hard clear coat like Dupont 4700S but its about $250 a gallon

 

Yo Pop

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZpaintforcars

 

I have used HOK House of Kolors urathane on several smaller projects Motorcycles , and a boat with great results .
Now i am going to use there BC and kosmic clear and atempt to paint my own car . with GSX stripes . Any sugestions or thing to be conserned with
Have a Booth and materials . Just finising final block and seal coat.
Should the stripes be put on before or after the base and clear go on , They make a intercoat clear for art work thinking of dusting the stripe area with color , intercoat clear , add striping and then maske off stripe area and paint the rest of the car base and then unmask stripe area and clear . Is this the wrong way?
Dave

 

Thanks guys! I checked out the link Matt. Still going through the pages. A couple of questions. A urethane c/c will make a enamel base stronger and last longer? I feel that would have to be the way to go. Also I have never heard of "Starfire" brand paint before. Are you familiar with it?

 

Don't know if he has what your looking for but he does have good deal on kits n such, he also knows allotif you talk to him.

Like follow his direction for use [like mix ratio] listed in the auction not what the can says.

He knows better.

 

How does the stuff look and hold up? I've never heard of Hawthorne so I can't comment. It would be good to hear from someone who tried it. There isn't much out there on the web but this didn't look very good:

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/auto-paint-67410.html

Devon

 

That post makes me a little apprehensive. I'm NOT trying to paint the car for $100. Just don't really want to go over about $600. I'm sorry if these?'s are rehashed, but I don't want to (or can afford to make any newbie errors. All of my old reference car books were lost under water. And I have searched many threads, but still nothing....

It is my understanding that I should go w/ an acrylic urethane base and clear for long term protection from uv, cracking andchiping? Hell I wouldn't mind putting top dollar c/c if it will keep up appearances for a longer time.

Once again thanks for the advice!!!!!:beer After all,itis for a BUICK!!!!!:TU:

 

Jason, I painted my car about 16 or 17 years ago with PPG's Deltron acrylic urethane basecoat, with several coats of ppg DelGlo acrylic urethane clear...enough that the transition of the stripe is completely buried and cannot be seen or felt when touched. People say it looks miles deep.

I've also been extremely pleased with the durability of the shine and chip resistance. The acrylic urethanes are pretty easy to spot repair too, though I have yet to need it. I think it's been wet sanded and buffed twice in all that time.

http://home.comcast.net/~shinzan/buick25.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~shinzan/buick26.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~shinzan/buick5.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~shinzan/buick6.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~shinzan/buick9.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~shinzan/h2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~shinzan/side11.jpg

Devon

 

Devon, I'm glad you posted. I remember reading your posts about your beautiful car. It does look like a deep shine.:bglasses: What color is that? It looks like it is a dark blue,but lighter in the sun.Puuurty.

Now since my friend has started w/ Dupont/Nasson products (2k urethane primer-sealer next), I assume I should stick w/ Duponts base urethane and c/c. Now would it matter if I went w/ Duponts higher end stuff or stay w/ Nasson????o No: I might grab him today and drive the 20miles to the store to get some info and prices.:dollar: I will have the wife's work 'puter for the next hour before she heads for work.