Extreme Automatics 2004-r Install

Discussion in 'The "Juice Box"' started by DauntlessSB92, May 20, 2013.

  1. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    Hey guys, over the weekend I drove down to Bethel, NC to pick up my stage 2 200-4r from Lonnie Diers at Extreme Automatics.

    I spent a lot of money on this transmission ( I also lost my a** on the previous 2004-r losing almost $2000) and I do not want to take it out again for a long time.

    Two issues I have are choosing a correct tv cable and making sure I am not installing a contaminated converter on my brand new transmission.

    Where can I go to get a correct length TV cable for use with the TCI TV/throttle cable Q-jet bracket. What steps should I take to make sure it is adjusted properly? Ken at Everyday Performance installed a correct geometry TV arm on my Q-jet and I have a 1" 4 hole spacer so all I need is the cable.

    Also this brings me to my options for a throttle cable. I have the stock 2bbl cable on my car and the pedal sits quite low to the floor and it is even worse with the TCI bracket. Whether I go aftermarket or I can get away with a 4bbl 350 cable I would like to do it correctly.

    What should I do for a trans mount? Do I use a g-body mount or do I use a th350 or th400 mount? My last trans had severe driveline vibrations I attribute to driveline angle so I want to make sure I start with the correct mount and correct the angle hopefully through shimming the trans mount since I do not have adjustable upper control arms

    My last question is, where do you guys recommend I have my converter cleaned/rebuilt in the Northeast area and what would that cost? It is a $300 converter so I don't want to buy a new one, but I also don't want to spend $200 to rebuild it.

    I appreciate the help
  2. rmstg2

    rmstg2 Gold Level Contributor

    Jacob couldn't your transmission man steer you in the right direction? I'm sure you will get some answers but you are safer warranty wise by getting info from the builder. That makes it harder for the builder to tell you something was done wrong in the installation.IHMO

    Bob H.
  3. woodchuck2

    woodchuck2 Well-Known Member

    Some friends of mine are running the same tranny in their GN and cannot keep it together. So far they have $4k in it and it has been warrantied twice. My thoughts are why not stick with a TH400 and put a gear vendors overdrive unit behind it?
  4. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    Google the TV made ez system for the q jet and use that.
  5. BuickNut70

    BuickNut70 Silver Level contributor

    That's why you need a well known professional build it!
  6. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    The TV made EZ system looks interesting but do I need it? I have a correct geometry bracket on my carb as well as the appropriate spacers and throttle bracket. Does anyone know what ball park length I need for the TV cable? I would rather have the correct length at the onset versus putting one too short in and then having to snake a new one in to replace it after the trans is installed. I am hoping to have this car up and ready to go for saturday and that is quite a bit of work:laugh:

    For a Monte SS it seems stock length is 37" and I could pick one up from my local autoparts store right now. Where should I go to rent or buy a line pressure tool? I want to do everything right. I don't want this transmission out again any time soon.
  7. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    I do know from 1sthand experience that Olds Gbodies used the OEM equivalent of that TCI cable bracket. Its the exact same thing but not all chromey/chromated.

    I dont know about the monte bracket.

    Maybe the olds length would be a good place to start?

    I can compare the mounting location of a Qjet on a 307 intake and a buick intake for you. back in a few with some measurements.

    9.25" from bellhousing to the rear carb mounting bolt on an Olds307
    7.125" from bellhousing to rear carb mounting bolt on Buick 350

    SO if you assume the Olds 307/200-4r length is correct for that combination, then 2.125" shorter than that length should be correct for your SBB350/200-4r setup, yes?

    ---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 PM ----------

    as for the trans mount

    I have always used a th350 mount and somewhere about .75" spacer/shim to get rid of the vibration. Definitely need a shim/spacer to correct the angle. trial and error gets it.
  8. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    I got one of Lonnies 2004r. I love it. I am putting out north of 500 fb tq. It is holding up good with Techg8 posi behind it. Anyway Lonnie said the best and easy way is to go with the e-z piece. So I spent the money and got it. It was very easy and I am glad I did it.
  9. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    Okay so right now I have the TCI bracket, but I have never used it. With the old transmission I made a custom bracket because the old tv cable was not long enough to allow WOT. I had a transmission guy help me through the process but the transmission in my car never shifted right.

    I am starting fresh this time and have no help so you guys are my lifeline. I know the TV made EZ kit is the best way to go but I really need to do this before Saturday.

    I have one cable already but it seems much shorter than what I had before and that is 35"

    this ( http://www.autozone.com/autozone/pa..._411169_0_36240&vehicleIdForService=311810997 ) and

    this ( http://www.autozone.com/autozone/pa..._340093_0_36240&vehicleIdForService=311810997 )

    were the two cables I was looking at. With the TCI bracket I think as long as I have a long enough cable my throttle cable should be okay. Can a cable be too long?

    As for the trans mount that sure explains a lot. I always figured it was a wheel balance or driveshaft balance issue but then I realized the problems I had were more indicative of driveline misalignment. I never shimmed the th350 mount. This time I will and Ill use an angle finder.

    I appreciate the measurements Ken. I hope to get the transmission in tomorrow. I just found out my transmission doesnt have the shift bracket so I have to pick one up so Ill get a cable and trans mount while I am out.
  10. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    I just found on the Carquest site that a 1986 Olds cutlass with 307 and 200-4R uses a TV cable CA-1937 that is 35.35" long.

    IF my theory and math is correct that would mean that a ~ 33.25" long tv cable would be right for your Buick 350 / 200-4r setup
  11. BuickNut70

    BuickNut70 Silver Level contributor

    The length is not the crucial part. Its the amount of travel.
  12. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    I don't get this. The cable is either long enough to get to the carb and plug into the bracket or it is not. It would be hard to be too long. Same with the throttle cable.
  13. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    That is what I am worried about, the tv cable I have was never installed on this car so I just want to make sure I have the right one before I put the trans in. Much easier to installed the tv cable with the transmission out in my opinion. As for the thottle cable mine broke at both ends of the bracket fitting and the pedal sits close to the floor and hits wot before it reaches the floor. I just picked up a specter universal cable and hopefully this will fix the problem.

    The extreme automatics install writeup strongly suggests visual confirmation of tv adjustment through the removal of the pan. If I do this should I still check line pressure? I would rather not spend $80 for a gauge unless there is a store I can rent one from.

    Again a lot of this I could figure out on my own but I don't want this transmission to come out again for a good while so I want to double and triple check that everything is okay
  14. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    I think we are aware of that. He has the correct amount of travel due to his throttle arm geometry.

    he is now trying to size up a cable that will be the correct length for his custom combination (SBB350 w/2200-4r) within its adjustable range.

    Its harder than one might think. Its not as simple as "too long or too short".

    for the any given cable length, different cars with different mounting brackets needed different length cable sheaths,

    So depending what mounting bracket youre using, you might need a different cable length and or sheath. Maybe autozone will have the right length cable, but will it have the right length sheath?

    position of the carb to the trans dictates cable length. position of the bracket to the carb dictates sheath length

    The TCI bracket he uses is very close to the OEM Olds bracket and that is why I gave the measurements I did.

    Its a good starting point, maybe better than taking shots in the dark at it.
  15. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    The only thing that matters about the length of the cable is that it is long enough to not get kinked anywhere.

    Read this:http://www.jakesperformance.com/TV_Cable_Setup_Info.html The only thing that matters is the geometry of the throttle lever. If that is not correct you will destroy your trans.

    I cobbled a pressure gauge together. Used some oil pressure gauge fittings and line with a cheap 300 psi gauge. Plug it into the pressure port on the tranny. Then you know if it's right.
  16. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    Yes but what Ken is doing is giving me measurements to make sure I have the right ballpark length. 200-4rs were used in many different engine and induction combinations so there are several size cables to choose from. My carburetor was built by Ken and he has included the correct geometry throttle lever. I will double check this upon transmission installation but I am confident things are fine

    I accidentally picked up the wrong cable from autozone today. It is off a monte ss and is 37.51", just under 2" longer than the cable used for a cutlass. I will try it out though and see what happens. One of the wonderful ideas Lonnie from extreme automatics has is that every tv plunger is marked to identify where the plunger should be at idle and WOT. So once everything is hooked up, I should have a clear indication of proper cable adjustment before even firing up the car. After that I will see what I can do for a pressure gauge. Since things aren't looking too good weather wise this weekend I won't stress about making it to Lebanon.

    I also picked up a new th350 trans mount (listed as m38 on autozones website which I never knew stood for the th350, while m40 is the th400) and will shim it as you suggested Ken. Its amazing I never thought of that before. Sure will be weird taking trips to the triple digits without a death shake:Brow:

  17. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

  18. rmstg2

    rmstg2 Gold Level Contributor

    The TV cable can be installed with the engine in or out of the car. The model or body style shouldn't make any difference. The cable goes directly from the transmission to the
    bracket on or near the carb. If you adjust the cable with the pan off as directed, you could get by without a gauge. You might be surprised to know some tranny shops don't have gauges.

    Bob H.
  19. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    Transmission is in and I am quite upset. I followed the instructions to the letter. I have a TCI bracket, a quadrajet with the correct tv geometry, a universal tv cable with factory style adjustment, adjustable cable length and a set screw for the inner cable I am running a fairly large trans cooler as well. I bought an aftermarket throttle cable to insure WOT is reached as the pedal hits the floor.

    I took the pan off and adjusted the cable so that the plunger is buried as the pedal hits the floor. To triple check this a third person put tension on the cable to insure it was not hung up. The third person then adjusted the set screw to insure this was the correct adjustment.

    Not having access to pressure gauges at the time I followed the recommended break in procedures. I ran the car on stands for a half hour as outlined, shifting through the gears and checking fluid level. After the time on the stands I drove the car for a couple miles allowing it to go through the gears and make several 1-2 shifts. After this I progressed to medium throttle on the return trip. Everything seemed great. Firm appropriately timed 1-2 shifts. Noticeable but not harsh 2-3 and 3-4 shifts and lockup worked as it should. I went back home and parked the car. One of my friends came over so we went for a drive to get some gas.

    As I gave it some gas to get up to 55 I laid into it a little and it downshifted and blew past 5000 rpm (my safe zone). I let off and it went back to the appropriate gear. From 55 I gave it 3/4 throttle again and it did the same thing. 5500rpm and it went back to OD when I let off. I took it easy from there on got gas and on the return trip the 1-2 shift was very late (4000rpm) and harsh. I went back home and parked the car until I could get a pressure gauge.

    I borrowed my friends automatic trans testing kit and it came with all the appropriate fittings and the correct gauge. My readings were as follows

    No TV/Full TV
    P 105/275
    R 167/280
    N 107/275
    4 107/280
    3 107/280
    2 278/280
    1 275/277

    After the test I noticed the cable appeared to be out of adjustment. I pulled the slider back towards the rear of the car and reset the set screw short enough to where the slider would pull out under WOT. After this I tested the car again to make sure I did not mess with WOT adjustment.

    No TV/Full TV
    P 107/275
    R 170/265
    N 110/275
    4 110/270
    3 110/265
    2 280/270
    1 275/270

    I also did a test in 4th at idle to make sure there was no variation between idle tv and no tv. both pressures were at 100psi

    After the test I checked pressures with tv connected at idle. TV pressure was now around 120psi in park but went to normal pressures in gear. pressure rose at the slightest touch of throttle and rose when the tv cable was pushed on.

    Any idea what is wrong? On paper the transmission seems like it should function normally. I am not making a lot of power, and this transmission was built to handle 750hp/750lbft

    I am still waiting for a return call from Lonnie
  20. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    I would try making the same down shift manually at the same speeds. See if the problem repeats.

    Also when manually downshifted in third, see if you get engine braking when you lay off the throttle.

    make the test run with the pressure gage installed and watch the gage when the proplem occurs.

    be careful not to melt a hole in the gauge line on your exhaust pipe.

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