So after the cam change , how will you know if "only" the intake picked up e.t. compared to the dual plane???
I see many performance cams with emphasis on the intake side on lift, then a little emphasis on the exhaust with duration. This seems to me like it would help with what I described in an earlier post (forgot to mention this part earlier, and thought about it on my way to work). It's not much emphasis, just a tad. I suppose it wouldn't really change a whole lot vs a straight pattern cam design, just an edge based on the rest of the engine. There's a whole lot more to it than simple lift and duration though, such as lobe profiles. You can make one asymmetric (which is a lot more involved) to tweak it even further, by creating faster or slower ramp profiles on the opening side and closing side of the lobes. (((Then there's lift limited racing classes, which try to maximize the durations for those lifts, making the lobes appear more trapezoidal (and requiring crazy spring pressures to keep it stable).))) This (asymmetric lobes) seems to be more important (or more beneficial) with smaller cams such as the OEM replicas, but when dealing with larger cams, there's much less room to play with when considering asymmetric designs, and so is much easier to just make them symmetric with larger profiles so that your areas are covered in a more broader sense, even more so when dealing with roller profiles--making asymmetric designs impractical (depending on the amount of lift and duration). When I refer to 'asymmetric' lobe designs such as found on OEM cams, I'm referring to their opening ramp profile being faster, while exhaust being slower. This keeps the valve open in the desired flow zone for longer periods of time without the extra lift. It also makes the cam much gentler on the valvetrain--if for no other reason than the exhaust valve closing slower on the seat so it doesn't get hammered to death--among other reasons I've listed elsewhere and are subject to debate. lol This gives the appearance of the cam being at a retarded setting @.006 while being advanced @.050. Pretty cool stuff. Those engineers were some smart mofos.
LOL, yeah I'll admit I threw a big wrench in the works, BUT, I can swap between the Stage 1 and the SP3 now that I've amassed 2 carbs and 2 different intakes. What I might do is bolt the Stage 1 back on after the cam swap, and start overp
This won't be possible for the old combo (unless further testing was conducted before the cam swap), but with the new combo, he could tune it with the dual plane and then tune it with the single plane and make a comparison. I have a feeling you already know this. Perhaps he just wants to make improvements to his vehicle to get it faster and faster, making a direct intake comparison defunct. Of course, all engines are comprised of many parts, and they all have to function in unison, so changing one thing and comparing it to another is an incomplete image of how each part would perform if given the optimal parts to emphasize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Comparing a dual plane to a single plane can be tricky, especially when the rest of the combination could benefit from either one. Each intake will make the engine behave differently, not just overall peak power output, but where those peaks occur, and how it affects the rest of the powerband. The basic fundamentals of how a dual plane works vs how a single plane works (and how they affect the engine's powerband) is well established. A dyno would show where each intake's strengths and weakness were at varying RPMs (given a combination that could benefit from either intake), unlike what you would find with the end results at the track, and would be a more complete image of how the SP3 compares to the Stage1 intake. So far (to the best of my knowledge) no such comparison has been made--or at least none that I'm aware of existing on this website--at least not for a Buick 350; though other comparisons have been made numerous times on other engine types.
HAHAHA, Gary yah must be a mind reader, read post #46 Being I'm changing the "personality so to speak" of the engine, by going roller, and eliminating the variable of my flat tappet cam, it would only be fair to start at the beginning with the Stage 1 and Q-Jet, THEN swap to the SP3 and AED. My fuel line from pump to carb I have set up to be able to swap between the Q-Jet and AED
Talked to Tim at TA today, he told me the roller cams they do put any numbers in the "degree intake lobe to....... for........advance. I'm going to install it straight up at 113 deg. so whatever that works out to be on the crank gear keyway to achieve 113 deg. He said if you want it 2 deg. adv. degree it to 111, 4 deg. adv. degree it to 109 etc etc
Mark your gonna see a significant response going for flat tappet to roller . I know i did when i change my TA-413 out for a roller, not as much lift as yours but bigger than the 413. If your going to put your stage 1 intake back on an bring to the track bring both carbs would not take to long to swap over for a comparison only thing you may need is a carb spacer for your AED carb . I had to run one with my stage 1 intake an 850 dp plus it is a dual pattern mounting. Then after some time an improvements you could swap out for the SP3 for a comparison. Just side note adjusting cam end play can be a real PITA! Also TA may have told you this already precompress your timing cover gasket so it does not affect your end play .Just install gasket an cover an tighten use no sealer an tighten the bolts on the cover over a couple of day till they don't tighten anymore.Then remove an install your cam an get your end play set for me this took me a while the cam bumper bolt is a fairly coarse thread. I think removed the cover a number of times. good luck an happy wrenching.
Mark, know nothing about the roller cam but that whole AC box thing can get you in a lot of trouble. :laugh:
Wow. lots going on here. Not to bash Mark but your last 2 combos were not dialed in. There was much left on the table with each. I would like to see one of your builds tuned and tested properly. The roller specs and flat specs are way different so there is no comparison that can be made between them.
I drilled thru timing cover, installed custom 1/4-28 cam bumper with locknut, little gsjohnny jb weld, and can adjust cam end play with timing cover torqued down. TA bumper is still in the bag. Less of a pita. I agree with Steve, finish/ dial what you start before changing.
Keep in mind that small changes were made over the years to these designs so they may not be exactly as stated: http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_310-350 http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_413-350
No bashing offense taken:grin: I feel I was trying to go faster with failing parts after I inspected the 413 cam. I've always wanted a roller for my 350, I for sure wasn't going to stuff another flat tappet in there. Hopefully with the roller in the engine, that's another variable outta the way. I'm bolting the Stage 1 back on to see how it runs at the track with the roller compared to my best of 13.65 at 98.55 with the flat tappet Not real scientific, buto No:
Thanks Walt! Yeah I remember setting the end play for the roller in my GN, cover on, cover off, cover on again, it is a PITA for sure, but were Buick guys, were used to "not easy"
Nobody makes anything like a "cam button" for the SBB? How else do you set the amount of walk on these engines?
