header fit.

Discussion in 'V-8 Buick Powered Regals' started by v8regalowner, May 29, 2013.

  1. v8regalowner

    v8regalowner Silver level contributor

    so, i have a 430 in my regal with the 2 1/8th ta headers (fit like 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lb sack). might be making a switch to a sbb. now there sbb headers are ownly shown to fit the early cars but has anyone ever used them in a g body? i know everyone is gonna ask why switch to a smaller engine but my car has just never liked having the big block in it. had alot more fun with it back in its sbc days but i at least want to keep a buick engine in it for now. dont plan on racing it any more and just want to be able to cruise around and enjoy it. (or maybe put a turbo on it in the future).
  2. Buick

    Buick Ramin Ansari

    If header fit is your trigger to give up on the BB, give the smaller 1-7/8 headers a try before you do something drastic.
  3. v8regalowner

    v8regalowner Silver level contributor

    No it's not. I just don't know if the small block headers will work in the car because there only listed for the early cars by app. I just miss the days of hopping in the regal and driving it anywhere which I could do when it was a sbc. I at least want to keep it buick powered though. With the 455 I had in it and the 430 that's in it now its always something wrong and its made me loose interest. I just want to enjoy the car again and I'm thinking going to an early 350 could do just that.
  4. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    The A Body headers should fit without too much trouble.
  5. v8regalowner

    v8regalowner Silver level contributor

    I was thinking so since the big block ones fit both body styles but I wasn't sure.
  6. Heavy D

    Heavy D Well-Known Member

    If your just going to enoy it and have fun, i wouldnt put any headers on it. Manifolds are fine, actually alot more user friendly. Just my two cents.....
  7. v8regalowner

    v8regalowner Silver level contributor

    Well the headers are already with the motor and my exhaust is set up for headers. Will still have to adapt some because the bb headers have 3 1/2 collectors and the small blocks are 3. Plus I'm sure they are set further apart.
  8. johnwwjr

    johnwwjr Founders Club Member

    Other than self-created issues, my 2" TA 455 headers fit pretty well in the chassis. My engine is about 1/4 to 3/8" further back than it probably should be. Everything clears on mine except that the No 2. pipe comes very, very close to the lower rear a-arm mount on the passenger side, and I had to remove some of the floor pan/fire wall seam on the drivers side to clear the no. 7 header pipe. The biggest issue I had was the intermediate steering shaft. Have to go with the proper mid 90's Jeep Grand Cherokee (NOT the aluminum upper connector) or Flaming River steering shaft. With the 3.5 to 3" reducers bolted to the end of the headers, have 20" center to center or 23" out side to out side (close approximation). I had to cradle the headers in the chassis first then drop the engine in over them and bolt them up.
  9. v8regalowner

    v8regalowner Silver level contributor

    Thanks john. I had to do a bunch of grinding and "tweaking" of stuff to make the headers that are on the big block work. i have always had to do the headers in first even when the car was a sbc. always get the bungy cords out and hang them in there first. this will be the 6th different engine that has ever been in the car so i have some practice. original 3.8, then 305 chevy, then 350 chevy, then 455, currantly 430 and soon to be 350 buick. its almost like i have a problem lol. cant just leave it alone i guess.
  10. johnwwjr

    johnwwjr Founders Club Member

    My car was a base '80 Regal coupe with 3.8, like many thousands of others. I was going the SBB route until I got crazy and things went uphill or downhill from there depending on the day. I never did a car from the ground up, this is over 2yrs going and have most of the big stuff done now. Many things done twice (brake lines, fuel system, rear axle etc.). Getting some fabrication/modification skills etc. Patience is the hardest for me since I thought I'd be done last year some time. Hurr's. Irene and Sandy caused a few distractions, but still moving on. Need to get the PS hooked up, do some back yard testing, then things should move on quicker. Good luck going forward with your stuff.
  11. Leviathan

    Leviathan Inmate of the Month

    ...would the shorty headers be an option? Apparently they fit like manifolds...
  12. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    LoL I love this. I guess I am not the only one with that particular problem.

    but as for the headers... I have a SBB in my 83 Cutlass and I "think" they would fit fine from the looks.

    have you checked out / searched on www.gbodyforum.com ? Lots of good info over there.
  13. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Warning before you buy 350 Buick headers for G bodies: according to TA, they WILL NOT FIT due to clearance issues with the frame. Apparently, the 350 sits down a bit lower in the car than the big blocks.
    You already have a BBB in the car, why not hog out a set of manifolds or go with shorty headers? You can get downpipes that will hook up to your exhaust.

    If it were me, I'd hog out a set of manifolds and get some downpipes and be DONE with that nasty header nightmare BS.

    Edit: If you're set on putting a 350 Buick in it (which is what my plans are for a G body), the v6 frame pads and motor mounts hook right up to the 350 and it pretty much just sits in place where the v6 was. It'll be 4" longer than the v6 and only 50 lbs heavier. Can use v6 suspension springs. All the v6 accessories on the front of the engine bolt right up to the 350.

    Everything except the distributor will interchange from the v6 to the 350 since they use the same parts (timing cover, water pump, oil pump, fuel pump, etc. etc.
  14. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    There are a few guys who have managed to lightly massage a set of headers to fit. I was going this route before I lost my car in Hurricane Sandy. Honestly the SBB 350 was the engine GM should have put in the Regal. I have strong intentions of putting a 350 in a regal and making it look just like the factory v6 turbo 3.8. If they made so much power from the factory with the 3.8 can you imagine how much power a 350 with well ported heads and forced induction would make with a conservative build?

    6psi of boost and 400+hp on a 100% streetable efficient engine is very possible. Sorry, a little off topic:laugh:
  15. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Never been a big fan of rickety, leak-prone headers myself, nor lopey idles, so ported manifolds suit me just fine. I can only imagine the nightmare it would be trying to shoehorn a set of 350 headers into a G body, even if you can make them fit. You can forget about any sort of coating on the headers surviving the installation without scratching and scuffing them to hell and back, possibly even denting them up some so they'll 'fit'. Then what about engine torquing? Smash a primary against the frame enough times and soon that cylinder suffers from poor exhaust evacuation.
    With a lopey idle, it'll be vibrating against the frame too, possibly.

    No thanks! :)

    To get even more off-topic (though it's still about G bodies), I did more research on the 7.5 GM axle and found that if you do the proper upgrades to them, they hold up quite well against moderate abuse. You have to have all the good stuff in them though, like the 28 spline steel axles, Eaton carrier and a good ring/pinion. Then weld up the tubes and it's good to go.
  16. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    Ive done extensive reasearch into this topic, headers really don't fit that poorly. It may take more time than fitment into an A-body but I feel any improvement of flow is a major plus for an already orphaned engine. Maybe headers aren't worth 100hp but they definitely make a worthwhile difference. From experience others have shared only one primary on the passenger side is of any concern and it isnt a major issue.

    I have also researched into building a 7.5 honestly to do it right one would have as much money into it as it would cost to buy an 8.5 or buy a kit to use a Ford 8.8. Yes you can make them strong enough for a mild motor but the expensive part is the posi carrier and axles. The most I would do to a 7.5 is find a used decent shape stock 26 spline posi, put a girdle on and weld the axle tubes to minimize flex as much as possible
  17. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Well damn I'm not doing very well today on posts then. Seems everything I suggest is either wrong or out of place. Oh well.

    Good news then! I'm glad I was wrong about the headers. Makes it an option whereas if you were to believe TA, it wasn't an option. If all it is is one primary, it could be taken to a shop and maybe bent a little for clearance?

    I'll take your word for it then on the axle. Tossin ideas around is always productive in the end. There is an older post here I made about the 7.5 and the general consensus was the 7.5 would be fine as long as those upgrades were made, and as long as nothing more than a 350 was in front of it. Otherwise, the Ford 8.8 was the way to go with ease of installation and availability.

    Sure you may have as much money in the 7.5 than another axle, but you also have to consider the modifications required to install the other axle. If it's strong enough to handle the mild 350, why shoot for overkill? The heavier axles would also rob more power to the wheels wouldn't it?
    Or does the Buick 350 just torque too heavy for the little 7.5? I'll take what I read here as better information than any other non-Buick source that says the 7.5 can be built to handle.

    Additional thoughts on the headers:
    I would think using the smaller primary headers TA offers would fit even better than the standard size 'race' headers, though headers are really not necessary for engines with mild cam profiles.
    If there's no overlap or major duration, the use of headers would provide little if any benefit over properly ported and polished manifolds. The cam size I have in mind for my application won't be as big as the offerings listed in TA's catalog.
    Though if one were to use one of TA's cams, I'd say the 212 or larger would benefit from fitting the G body with a set of the smaller primary tubes.
  18. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    Gary I am not saying you are wrong, just a different viewpoint is all. Smaller headers like 1 5/8" should clear the control arms with minimal clearancing.[​IMG]

    That is Dan's (floydsbuick) car with 2" primaries. With smaller primaries I think clearance concerns are much less.

    As for the axle there are two sides to the coin. Either you find a factory posi 7.5 and just weld up the tubes and put a girdle on or you incur the major cost of finding a posi carrier. A good carrier alone is upwards of $400 then the cost of rebuild, gears and axles would put things close to $1000. For that much you could find an 8.5" and never worry about breaking something.

    A bone stock 7.5 is a bad idea behind a 350. It was barely a good idea behind 231 and 305 cars. Its like running a stock 200-4r behind a bigblock. Sure it may last but do you really want to wait for something to break and worry about it every time you drive?

    Just some of my viewpoints is all. I was seriously planning on this swap myself and thought of all the angles. I think the 8.8 swap is a cool idea and if the OP considered any suspension work it would be far cheaper than any other option. All I would worry about is making sure there is enough adjustability in the driveline angle.

    http://gbodyforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=299949#.UdWE9204yWs another post from a v8buick member, tobyp. It seems Hooker Headers fit best over the TA Performance headers
  19. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Ah well, it's always good to hear another's point of view, even if you don't agree, you can still see the reasoning behind it.

    Those headers look like not only were they a PITA to install, but now he's gotta worry about ground clearance. I still say no thanks, but others here may not mind.

    I would never, nor would I ever recommend leaving the 7.5 stock. That's what makes them so weak. The axles, carrier, ring and pinion, and welding up the case multiplies the strength many fold, strong enough I think for a mild 350.

    If I ever planned on putting in more power later, I'd put in the Ford 8.8, but that's not why I'm building this. Gas mileage is one of the top priorities, as is a smooth idle, quiet mufflers, and gentleman street manners with the ability to get out of its own way--that can be driven every day and last many years (which pretty much counts out a high lift, tight spring valve train). The engine won't be that much more than a 1970 spec'ed stocker.

    Lugging down the rear end with a heavier axle will just take more power away from the overall performance. Never underestimate reciprocal parasitic loss.

    Yes, it will be only marginally cheaper than buying another axle, but I'm doing the work myself so I would rather put in the guts than take the whole axle out and cut the drive shaft, buy a control arm kit, then have to line it all up at just the right angle with the drive shaft. To me, that's more of a pain than rebuilding one.

    You said yourself in that other thread that the weakest link in those 7.5's is the axles and carrier. Those get replaced along with the ring and pinion, which will be stronger than the stock one. The welding up of the case will seal the deal on strength. I really don't see much of an issue unless more than 450 ft. lbs. were going against it with slicks and a high stall.

    Even Monzaz said the 7.5 would be fine with upgrades as long as nothing more than a 350 went in it, though he did recommend the 8.8 he sells in case I ever wanted to upgrade the 350 to a big block (which isn't happening).
  20. Bar50

    Bar50 Well-Known Member

    For the record, I had a 7.5 with a used 28 spline posi carrier from a '93-02 F-body with Grand National 28 spline (Buick, not dirt car) axles in my old bracket race car. 11 second passes on slicks for three years before the posi carrier broke. Axles and housing are still in use in another project. For a street car, allowing a Buick 350 would be considered a street car as it will make less guts than most Buick 455's, the 7.5 will be fine, even with 26 spline axles, until you add slicks or drag radials.

    It will be in less of a bind/stressed if you add a 3.08/3.23/3.42 gear, the higher gear ratios seem to load the pinion (I would hedge a bet, its do to mechanical advantage, or lack thereof).

    I have a Regal with a 455 Buick, an Cutlass with a 455 Olds, both with 7.5's both are spirited about (leaned-on, tortured, etc) both are fine, no slicks....

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