It's just one of our cars we have 3 other GS's so we still buick guys just sick of waiting on these engines and them self destruct,...leak oil,...have blow by,...not make the power they should,...etc We've had 4 engines built over the years by Buick builders that have all done exactly that,....I'm sick of it,...I can put a rear seal in and a pan on without it leaking a drop,...but a professional builder cant???!!,.can't???!!,.. That's the issue with this engine,..it's not just the lack of power,..we were told and charged for dyno time and numbers,...that was a lie,...it pisses oil while it's running!! From the rear seal,...it's puffing from crankcase breathers already more than it should,..it's pressurizing the coolant system intermittently?? So a head gasket is questionable,...it will not idle in gear,...tried for hours and hours tuning on that to no avail,...it's had 3 converters in it now,....the Trans feels like its flaring in 3rd,..it's fresh,...see where I'm goin here haha This car has never played nice don't know what it's issue is but I've NEVER had this much issue with a machine
That's why I keep a late model performance car,...because older iron can't do what modern muscle can,..you can put FI on it sure but it will never be the total package unless you invest 100k into it
Your right about that, it's a big investment to upgrade 50 year old tech.. car I finished last year probably had about as much money invested in it, as it costs to buy a new one. 70 GS convert, with full suspension upgrades, 12 bolt posi, paint ect ect... he had been working on it for several years.. I took it in to install the 482 with EFI/DIS and do the six speed manual trans conversion for him..with hyd clutch update. When finished, that car will run with anything NA on the street, and handle with it as well.. the big difference? it won't depreciate, it's not just another used car. -------------------------------------- Here's an idea for you.. You need to box that motor up and send it to me to fix it Ethan.. Fastenal shipping is relatively cheap. Then you can put it back in the car, or sell it, without having to give it away. Right now, you might as well start burning $100's in the backyard.. if you part that deal out. That motor was most likely built around the time that Fel Pro changed the rear seal we were using.. and did not tell anyone. I had several I had to fix myself.. don't leak on the run stand, or the dyno, but start about the time they get put in the car. The cure for that is the one piece seal from BOP.. it's all I will use anymore. I don't know who built that for you, but go easy on them.. Don't know what to tell you about dyno time, I recall the spark plug wire thing, but who knows, maybe it was dynoed with a different cap/wires... I have seen that before. Assuming the heads were new, or completely rebuilt and cleaned, then if the exhaust ports were dark with carbon when you got it back, it had been run.. especially on STG 2's. I understand frustration, trust me, often times it's just best to get it out of your hair.. I untangle messes like this all the time, usually no real big deal. Anyway.. get ahold of me if you want to do that, otherwise, good luck with the repair, the sale, or finding a lake to push it into.... JW
A lot of the fel-pro seal issues are because our Buick crankshafts are .032 bigger diameter than the six cylinder Ford crankshaft seal diameter. Then to make matters worse the Buick groove is .030 deeper. I know because I have a six cylinder Ford rear main cap. So when having my crankshaft turned I have them do the seal surface to the ford diameter. And then adding a .015 brass shim under each half to duplicate exactly the Ford cap and crank shaft dimensions. This was before the newer seals became available. It has worked for me very well in the past. With no burning up seals and no leaks. However I do agree with Jim that Fel-Pro has changed their material of seals That are less forgiving.
Does Fel pro make the viton seal that TA sells? I use the 472-500" Cadillac trim seal and have good luck. Also the TA viton trim to fit seal, good luck here too.
I’ve had luck with the Cadillac seal also just not crazy about trimming seals. I believe it’s actually closer to the Buick Crank dimensions than the Ford seal
Yup, played that tune.. I even went so far as to turn up an aluminum slug that has both the OD of the 200 Ford and the BBB on it.. so I can check the seal crush once it's fitted in the block.. We found that .020 crush is about the sweet spot for sealing.. so together with that freshly resized 3.377 seal surface on the crank, and custom fitting of the 200 Ford seal, I had great luck between 2014 and 2018 with rear seals.. then I had 3 or 4 of them leak in a row.. taking them apart, I found that the seal lip was burned right off it.. the fragments were still in the seal area of the cap.. At that point in time, I switched to the 1 piece BOP seal, after using it to seal up a 3.25" alum block that had the seal grooves machined incorrectly. While it's a $50 seal, when you look at the cost of turning the crank to the correct size, it's actually less expensive to use this seal.. and this one is a double lip seal.. that like I said, has been 100% so far.. I have about 8 of them out there now, I have to get to 10 of them installed, with an in-service time of at least one year, before I start recommending them. But the pics for fitting thread are already taken.. One note on the groove depth of the 455 block... Check 10 of them, 2 or 3 of those will be different.. that tolerance is pretty wide, and why I went away from all the two piece seals. I do this for a living, so a leaky seal is more than just an annoyance.. I simply can't have it, or it's taking money out of my pocket while I fix it.
I agree hundred percent with The rear seal issue. That’s why I can’t understand why when TA had a clean sheet of paper did not at least on the blocks that have aftermarket crankshafts offer totally redesigned performance seal like Chevys and other manufacturers use. I did use the one piece BOP seal in my T/A a block and it leaked like a sieve. And I know I’m not the only one.
Ford six cylinder crank seal diameter is 3.3740 the seal in the factory Buick register sits flush unless shimmed to stick out one side about .020-.025
Tom, Yup, but l left .003 on the crank seal surface to increase contact crush. Better a little too much, than not enough. and on the block groove, some you shim, not so much on others.. Go check a few, you will see what I mean. Groove was designed and machined for a Rope seal. Ain't nothing precise about those things. Surprised that you had a leak with the 1 piece BOP double lip seal.. 3" or 3.25" main block? I have put in 8 in iron motors, and 1 in the 3.25" main alum block.. and have not seen a hint of a leak. What was the diameter of your seal groove? I understand about a more modern seal for the Tomahawk, but your wrong about one thing.. that block was not from a clean sheet, it had all kinds of design constrictions, not the least of them was the ability to use a stock crankshaft. I don't think there is two piece neoprene seal with the 3.407 Buick stock crank seal diameter on the market. So now your designing a new seal to go with the new block.. And as a vendor, you have to stop spending money sometime..
On the iron block if you go by having the seal protrude up on one end by .020 to.025 that seems to be the sweet spot. I agree the new seal from Fel-Pro is less pliable than the one of past so I prefer to have less contact. Since my crank is already turned down to that diameter I’m kind of stuck with using it. It has been reliable though in the past so I’ll keep my fingers crossed on the one I’m building now. As far as the aluminum block mine was a 3 inch main.I personally know someone else who had one built by a well-known engine builder who used the one piece seal I believe it was on the 3 1/4 Main they smoke tested it and it leaked on only half their remedy was to get rid of the one piece use a two piece and shim one 1/2. I’m assuming maybe the cutter Was in need of replacement at that time of machining the The receiver groove on The block and since the cap Is steel and the block is Aluminum it probably cut more so on the aluminum side. I know some other machining quality on my block was not the greatest especially on the thrust. I believe there was other board members who had leaks as well with the aluminum block.
as far as the constraints of the aluminum block and fitting the stock cast-iron crank in it I believe that was a mistake right there I’m sure almost everybody who’s using aluminum block is using a aftermarket crank. And for that matter I don’t know why were even using a 3 inch main. If you can afford to buy the block pay for all the machining I don’t think at that point the cost of a crankshaft is going to stop you
Ya, I agree Tom.. but TA wanted a fits all thing as much as possible. TA has always had this philosophy, so as to maximize sales. I think just getting it produced was a big hurdle, and it sure is nice to have.. but my experience with it has been very different that yours. JW
Spark plug holes are too tight to do a compression test on all cylinders,..actually could only do two,...a complaint I've had with TA heads for years,..but anyway,..yea 90lbs on one 125 on another,...I'm pulling it out now,...to be continued
I don't have anyone local anymore I trust to do the machine work,...and for the $1k it cost to go ahead and assemble it it's not worth my time,..especially when they have a dyno and I want it dynoed anyway,...makes no sense to pick it up to do the assembly then take it back,..especially a 6hr drive each way,..no one local will dyno a Buick I've tried many times,..this BBC Chevy land nothing else gets the time of day We have 2 truly world renowned engine builders within 20min of me but it would sit for God knows how long waiting,..seeing how they are swamped in $50k to $100k builds
