I'm new to the board here but been reading it for a while. Gettin ready for a freshen up and was thinkin bout changing rods. Got stockers with ARP's,been resized and work good. But I'm bout to put a different set of pistons in there and add a little comp. to it (goin from dished/eyebrow'd hypereutectic to whatever forged piston) and my bud just put a set of Eagle's in his Pontiac motor and they seem like a logical step. Right now it's got 67 400 heads ported/shaved down by a good Buick porter,twice. Got TA 210s cam,4150 holley,SP1 ported,KB rockers,2 " headers,TH400 10" conv. 3500 stall,4:10 gears in 12 bolt,car is 3500 lbs with me in it. I use an NOS Double Cross with bottom exit Pro Shot noid 4.5 lbs FP,900 Lbs BP,38Deg base timing 11 out for Nitrous,stock susp w / airbag ,28 X 10.5 et drag.Best run has been 6.79 w/ 1.41 60 ft.BTW block is 70 .030 over w/5/8 oil feed.Thanks for any help and if ya'll have 11:1 to 11.5 pistons for sale or some good rods holler at me..fish
Good idea to get those Sportsman TA rods. When you get back to using your nitrous again, try to go down in jet sizes so you can adjust the fuel pressure up. "square" jetting seems to work good at 5.5 psi so your 4.5fuel psi sounds right for power with stock jetting. There is several reasons for this, It will stay much closer on the tune, will not be as sensative on fuel adjustments, the fuel will respond faster, you will be a lot less likely to burn a piston. Most kits are setup rich and with low fuel pressure because most first time users will not have something right in there fuel system which can burn up a motor quick. Once you learn to tune the nitrous, get the pressure up and the fuel jet size down. 6.79 is impressive for such a small cam. I'm guessing you compression was about 9.5 or so to work so well with the nitrous. With the pistons if you still plan on running nitrous, I would recommend tappered pins and get the top ring down .300" from the top of the piston. So what is this motor in? How heavy?
Rick.. thanks for responding...the 6.79 was on the gas...and yeah the comp ratio is probly right on those lines. I've been spraying the crossbar for a while and the squared 40 jets are just the first step....ive got a few more jumps to make yet on it. the 46 jets will be next and 50's behind that. I am more than likely just goin to get the speed pro forged pistons so the comp ratio stays close and use more cam. I've talked to Dave (TA) a good bit about the combo in the past when I was running EZ/S and he helped alot. I was scared at first to run such low FP but it keeps the plugs clean at 4.5,just tried new type of plug too Autolite racing clip gap..worked real good. I'm pretty happy right now with everything esp. the 60 ft. but I am in a position where I make more money and would like to make it more reliable ( con rods,pistons). Thanks for your help again ..fish
Rick... Sorry dude just read all of yer post..heh..car is 72 GS weighs 3510 with me in it...got glass bumpers,hood. You probly dont remember but I ran in a Greeleyville race in ST. tire class a while back when you were there running 10.5 .. lemme know when ya get back in the States and get to the track so I can watch your car run again....check the website for a pic of my car http://atlas.spaceports.com/~1320web/n2ofish/index.html
Rick is right as usual. Do you drive the car on the street? If not I would look into aluminum rods.This way you can lighten the rotating assm up and aluminum rods are easier on the crank and block if you miss with your tune up and detonate it.I would put a Je Venolia etc piston in it.If you do this you can switch to a .990 bbc pin.The bbc pin allows the use of more commonly available tapered pins. For the cam shaft I would talk to Scott Brown @ racemufflers.com or Jay Allen from Cam innovations(Rick has Jays #)They are on the for front of cam design.Another choice would be Terry at Cam Motion.I really think these would be your best bet for a nice running cam.
Thanks 10 Inch.... It's not a street car anymore in my opinion..I know guys who drive their race cars on the street,but I dont just becuz of wearin out parts. Besides I cant spray on the street coz its change lanes and my blinkers dont work. My big thing right now is getting a good setof pistons,nothing custom or anything ,just something not to bug me when I start getting into the 300 HP range on the plate. I have sprayed the hypers before with that much,but it was a bomb. I have also sprayed factory 70 pistons in a std. bore motor with that much ..with almost the same results mid 6's in the 1/8. That was at 3950 per EZ/S weight breaks. Now its lighter (3510 w/me) and it goes a little better with less nitrous. I know seriously that nasty rods and flattops will take all I can give it ,but it still just has iron heads (67 400 ported to the max within reason) and a 4150 carb. I'm just not ready to take the plunge to the big stoke deal yet. AND I appreciate every iota of information yall share..it means alot and I want to let you guys know that. Ive done the Buick thing on my own for a long time with help from my Pontiac bud ...so heres :beer to the Buick board THANKS GUYS :beer ..cya ..fish
From the new TRW sealed power forged pistons I have seen, the top ring looks to be higher than it used to be. Top ring is now too close to the top for much nitrous use. There was a set of GRP big block chevy aluminum rods on racingjunk.com a couple of days ago, may still be there for $400 I think. This rod with a custom piston would get you in the same ball park as the TA sportsman rod and the TRW pistons and much better for your nitrous use. Your iron heads with the right cam will work well, I would use Scott Brown for the cam if it were my choice. I would also have the piston tops coated for use with the nitrous, helps keep the heat from hurting the piston. Stick with the .990 pin if you have a choice.
One thing you need to concider when talking about squeezing a 300 shot on a Buick, and that's the Crankshaft. You are running much lower compression than I am on my 470ci I run JE nitrous pistons, stock crank offset ground to 3.955 to use the bbc aluminum GRP rods, as mentioned by someone else in this thread. I was running 13.6 to 1 comp, and hitting it with 200 shot of juice, car was flying!! 10.20's on motor in a 3600lb '65 Skylark Convert., and 9.31 @ 146 on the juice. I had a problem and had to pull the motor after about 25 passes, and to make a long story short, the crank is cracked, on every rod journal. So if you are going to squeeze, ya gotta have all the good stuff, I did, except for the crank, and now I have to decide to wait about 6 months for the same stroke, or go big and make it a 523 motor, because I can get the parts quicker. Gary G.
yeah theres always a price to pay... one of these days I'll start from scratch and put real money in it,but for now it's just for fun. One day I'll actually have enough vacation to go racing again,but they're killin me right now. I know I've heard Scott Brown's name before cant remember where but I'll give him a call and get one ground for the next pistons. Dennis,badbuick thanks for the help...ya'll be cool..fish
OK so lets cut to the chase... What parts package do you recommend to replace the piston/rod combo in it now? I dont mind cutting the crank to 2.20 for the rod,or funky pin/ring package...I 'll either need .040 pistons o r start with another block. I have that oil passage in the back looped together with brass fittings and tubing,you thing its good? I havent ever seen bad bearing wear on my motors yet and I use an old Dinosoar pan with an extra inch of sump..works for me,any other mods you guys use? Well thanks again for everybodys help...with any luck I'll go and try the 46X4 tuneup this weekend and have some results.... :beer ...fish
Some guidelines.... You can use 2.20 or 2.25 rod journals. The 2.250" rod journal crank will hold up better. Keep the compression down. Stay away from strokers. I would stay under 11.5 if you want to enjoy it longer. Compression is hard on parts. Even harder with a power adder. In my opinion you can go just as fast without 12-13.5 comp. On your tune, try the 46 nitrous jets with the 40 in the fuel with 8 psi fuel pressure as a starting point. http://www.coldfusionnitrous.net/calculator.html As you go higher on the jets with that plate your going to run into problems with only 4.5 FP. Your going to get a lean spike at the beginning of the plate activation that will get worse as you go up in jets. The lower the fuel pressure the longer it take to stablize the fuel pressure after activation. Your fuel line/regulator configuration is also important with your setup as you go up on the jetting. If you want to even consider keeping the same setup, the fuel solenoid and regulator have to be in front/foward of the bar in the plate. Make sure if you up the system pressure to readjust your safety switch for the higher pressure to 7 1/2. :Smarty: Ya Fish, I remember you. Gald to see your back in at it with the car. What I would give to be back in the states racing again. It will be on the board when I'm back. :beer By the way, get rid of that jumper line in the back of the block. :rant: If anything you need a line going from the bottom of the filter plate to the passenger side of the block to help feed the mains. Screw the drivers side lifter galley, if lifters start ticking, replace the front bearing with a hard backside grooved bearing. That's what needs to be in there anyways. Your wasting oil and pressure that needs to go to the crank.
What happen to badbuicks crank not a nuff oil to the crank when we had my crank done we had a big Radius ground in the crank. I have ran 200hp alot with a 6.700 eagle H Rods with no problems i just dont no how you could crack the crank with Alium rods.
Gary G. So was I right? It was my guess back in August..... I'll agree with Larry. I think that stock crank would hold. Either your compression it beating it to death with the nitrous or you got one of those "well-used" race cranks. Hows the radius on the journals were they cut it down to 2.200". I've beat mine with 300Hp of nitrous too much to think otherwise. You may be running too much timing considering you have a 7.0" rod, 13.6 comp and a 200 shot. 24-25 degrees? Heck, put another stock crank in and put a .030" thicker copper gasket to drop the compression to 12.5. o No: Just a bit of optimism. :grin:
Rick... First off...THANKS :beer for the help. It means alot to have allies who have been there to give advice. On the reg/noid mounting:the reg is on the front of the cyl. head and noid is on the front corner of the carb,bein an X bar plate Ive got it feeding the front port and a side port,best I could think of. I do have a 2X long set of nitrous plate feed lines to give a buffer off the line,they arent on there now but I could try it. I will put in the 46 N jets and leave the 40F in there and do what you said,8 lbs flowing. I reckon if the plugs go dark ( theyve been brand new looking with the setup mentioned before after 3 passes with no specks.) I will go with 1 lb increments till I hit 6 lbs and then go with 1/2 lb increments..am I thinking right? Im also puttin a new set of shoes on it tomorrow and hit the track Sat and Sun. Its crazy cuz the 28x10s I have been goin 1.41 s with came off an 8sec car that put 15 passes on em and quit workin for it. I used em after that and then we tried em on the Pontiac (70 bird cal tracs 472 butler moto t 400) and it didnt work,but theyre down past the holes so might as well get em. On the piston deal,I dont really want/need anymore than the Speed Pro deal unless somebody pops up with 10 to 11 : 1 used. I'm stayin with the iron heads till they wont take a valve job anymore. Cant wait to give yall results of tomorrows foray at the strip,hope its good news. Thanks again all :beer fish
If it is really rich on the 8psi setting then you can take a 1psi jump but once your close I only recommend going a 1/4psi at a time. When you get close a 1/2psi jump can burn a piston on a 250 HP shot. I don't think you'll make it down to 6 psi. You have a 6 jet spread on 2 bars so it is more sensitive to pressure and jet changes. Look at the HP increase on your crossbar plate verses a single bar plate with the same jetting change. You must have a fuel system that can handle the higher pressure. It will take a good fuel pump to hold a higher psi at the regulator. I would say you need 14psi comming from the rear tank to hold fuel pressure on the 60ft. If you have a 1 gal fuel cell up front, then you should have no worries. Remember, there is always a limit on how much nitrous a given combination will take. You plate starts at 225hp shot and goes to 275 for the next, right?
Rick... First off...didnt get to run this wkend. No tracks open Sat and rain all day Sun. I'm bummed cuz I probly wont get another wk end off for another month.On the fuel ,I have a 5 gal cell in the rr,one side for carb and other outlet for nitrous fuel.Got a mallory comp 140 pump and holley reg.I tried to mount the 1 gal cell ive got in front but wasnt happy with any way to mount it clean.I can jet the plate however I want ,just have to buy the odd size jets.I also have been taking 11 degrees of timing out with the box,that way I dont have to monkey with the dist all the time,the total timing at dist for motor is 38 deg. Ive always been partial to square jets in plate systems,but Im with you on increasing fuel pressure instead of jets,that ought to be a new page on learning my chops.Also put a new set of tires on it today same size, too bad I couldnt break em in at the track.Theres always next time tho and I solved my brake problem at the shop today and got some work done on the Pontiac with Russ. I'm hoping to get in the 1.3x range in the 60 ft with new tires ,on old tires went 1.41.Bout to get a glass trunklid..I have a glasstek hood and I like it so I'll probly use them unless one comes up used here.Got glass bumpers too. Anybody cut the crash bars out of the doors? Thanks..fish
Door Bars, fuel cell Those door bars are a pain to get out but I got mine out. I had to cut the spot welds at the front and back of the door to get them out AFTER I cut them into pieces to get them out of the door. I believe they came to 18lbs between the 2. It's free weight. I've spent a lot of money in some areas to save that kind of weight so go for it. The spot welds are just before were the door jam and outer skin come together. I cut mine used a sharp 1/4" rotary file to cut the spot welds since I was so close to the outer door skin and I didn't was to mess it up by drilling though the weld and hitting the outer skin. On the fuel cell. You should be fine in a stock bodied car with the fuel cell up front. I think you may run into an issue when you run a fiberglass nose piece and/or run faster than 8.50's. I've never heard or seen any of the guys I know have a problem with the forward cell. As long as you properly secure it and run decent fuel lines, you should be fine. Its all in the appearance, if it looks right, no one will bother you about it. :TU: Just don't try to zip tie it in place and run cheap rubber hose then expect no one to call you on it. :shock:
If you going to stay with a power adder. Spend the money on Air flow. You'll get much more power from the airflow over more stroke. In fact, it will slow you down when your on the spray if you can't move the air. You'd be mad :rant: to spend the money on a stroker, then go spray it to find out it wasn't as fast as it was before. ou:
