Hey Jody Hope you don't mind,I just thought it was a good read and this place has had the sound of crickets lately.... http://www.v8buick.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=983241 Just a point,My 505 uses the same main bearing clearances and .003 on the rods but w/ a 2.100 journal.Most Buicks builders wouldn't try this but for a Race motor it works.
The blue car is Jason Line's car currently being campaigned by Alf Wiebe up in BC. it is very nice piece, well designed and very fast. I will post a couple pics of my car tommorrow.
That would be the same guy. Back in 1993 Jason won the stock eliminator world championship in that same blue car shown in the photo. Here are some of this pics of my D/SA 1970 Stage1 I promissed. Unfortunately, my car is not quite as fast as Jason's.......yet but hopefully someday soon.
I use Joe Gibbs Racing Oil XP1 -- Developed for NASCAR, this stuff is kind of expensive, last year it was $10/quart. I replace the oil every three events. The motor was designed to use this particular motor oil.
Nice thread! Good to hear there are still some die-hards out there and not taking the "easy" route. Nice specs Paul and good luck.:TU:
Jody, What are the camshaft limitations for running this class? Thanks ...................................................... The very first step in putting together a program like this starts with a very good engine builder who builds stock/Super stock eliminator motors. My engine builder is Lance Line of Line Performance in Wright, Minnesota. Later I will discuss the parts list, I would like to stress that buying all of the parts alone will not necessarily make your car perform this well. Please take a moment to let that sink in - it is absolutely the truth. Stock and Superstock engine builders typically have 20+ years of experience not only building these motors but also the same amount of time of trial and error at the track testing new things. A little story about hard lessons learned, I am professionally trained as mechanical engineer and always fancied myself as someone who could figure almost anything out. For years I built my own budget bracket motors which were very reliable and pretty quick for what they were. When I decided to race my 1970 Buick in stock eliminator, I decided to try my hand at building one of these motors. I bought all of my valve train parts from Line performance, found a local machinist with an excellent reputation for "listening" (very important), and proceeded with the engine build-up. Once complete, I had my engine dynoed. It made 490HP, 535 Ft-LBS Torque, a best E.T. of 11.70 @ 116mph and 34 passes later at a Division race in Mission, BC spun two rod bearings taking out the crank and block. Another $7500 dollars later including the freight to ship my salvagable pieces to Line Performance, My new engine made 514HP, 560 Ft-lbs torque, a best ET of 11.28 @ 119mph (W/a less than optimium transmission best 60, of only 1.53 - should be 1.42). All the same performance pieces including cam, valvesprings, rockers and rocker shafts, pistons etc. Engine is still in the car after 40 passes and still running excellent! Here is the basic set-up: Stock Buick Crank stroked .014" - allowable per NHRA Rules NHRA Approved After market Manley Rods - NHRA Spproved Stock Replacement JE Pistons - Rings by Line performance 2-3" Hard Block Cylinder heads - milled 55CC chambers per NHRA blueprint specs otherwise stock Felpro Racing head gaskets - .038 Intake and exhaust runners stock - no porting Rocker arms - stock 69 rockers - oilight bushed and indexed Roker shafts - stock diameter - aftermarket hardened solid shaft Comp Cams Springs racing Springs - Slighty smaller than stock buick diameter - 180lbs closed, 325lbs on nose Custom Vale Spring Cups by Line performance Custom Comp Cam - developed by Jason Line Stock Stage one valves - manley FelPro Intake Gaskets Stock Intake includes two slightly mismatched runners - this thing is untouched. Carb - stock 1970 455 Q-jet by Jason Line MAGNA Flow Fuel Pump and 10 AN Lines to regulater - 8 AN line to carb -- Trust me this is an absolute must or you will lose head gaskets! (learned the hard way - Fuel Pump must flow 1 Gallon every 20 sec minimum. Engine is Compression ratio is 13.78:1 when built to NHRA blueprint specs. Main and rod bearing clearance .0035" no oil system mods. Even though Lance Line told me set them at .0035" when I built my motor this seem to be too much clearance based on my previous experiences. Remember what I said about finding a machinist who will listen? Well the same applies to all of us who might think we are experts. I did not listen and here is what happened: When I built my motor and ran them at .0025" and even with oil system mods - still spun bearings. My previous expereinces did not include almost 14:1 compression. I will also tell you that Lance and Jason figured these clearances out durng 1993 when Jason won the Stock Eliminator World Championchip - they changed rod bearings after every race that year and tweaked the clearances until the rod bearings would live. I also learned another thing that pro engine builders know about that typical racer would not know unless they were a machinist - Cylinder wall preparation -- there is a lot horsepower here - more than most people know. Unless your local machinist builds these type of motors he will likely either not know or want to spend the time going thorought 10-15 step process to get the surface finish correct. By the way the rod bearings are standard non-race type since nobody makes a racing type rod bearing for a stock 455 BUICK. The oil I run in the car is Joe Gibbs XP -- it is $10/quart and is replaced every 3 races or approximately 25 passes. Transmission: 8" ATI Treemaster Converter in front of TH350 that personally build: INstalled ALumium Direct Drum with 36 Element Sprague, 2.75 Low Gear Set. Valve body was the stock unit with a couple check balls removed by some monkey at a local tranny shop -- Take my advice and buy a transmission from a reputable high performance builder specializng in stocker and super stocker transmissions, it will be way cheaper in the long run - again they have that 20+ years of expereince. I will be running my TH-350 this year set-up with a Turbo Action Valve Body and Frank Lupo Dynamic Converter. Next season I hope to upgrade to a Scott MClay M200 set-up for my application -- this is the best choice! Rear gear is 4:33 Mark Williams, Crome Moly MW Driveline and 35 Spline Axles. Front Suspension: QA-1 Double adjustable Coilover Shocks - scrapped the stock springs - these are the ticket for total adjustability. Global West Del-la-lum Splid Front Suspension Bushings Tubular rear suspension upper and lower control arms. Lowers solid, uppers adjustable at both ends. I also custom Designed my own completely bolt on Rear Anti-Roll bar system that did not require any drilling welding or otherwise molesting of my car's chassis - Do not wast your money on Comp engineering or anyone elses junk out there - They do not work. Either have a reputable shop custom build one for your car or do it yourself. Hope I don't seem to sound like a know-it-all I surely don't and am constantly learning new things every day!! Please feel free to share some of your own as well. Hopefully, this information helps Jody Plummer
Hello John, Not sure if you remember me from the GS Nationals a few years ago? I was helping my good friend from Montana who was racing a Green 1970 Buick Called Nitemare. I believe we ran into you at the race and I think your father drove a very fast and beautiful sub 9.50 Buick? The cam specs are pretty simple - must retain stock lift at valve. Basically during a teardown they install a solid lifter and make sure the lift meets stock specifications at the valve. Overlap and duration are unlimited, here are the cam specifications for my current combination: Gross Valve Lift: Intake: .483 Exhaust: .472 Duration @ .006" Tappet Lift: Intake: 304 Exhaust:319 Duration @ .050" Intake: 272 Exhaust: 276 Lobe Separation: 110
I am new to the Buick blogs but have had many Buicks. I have a copy of Jason Lines car with a complete Alf Wiebe suspension and a Lance Line built legal C or D/SA engine for sale carb to pan with the lightweight turbo 350 and ATI converter that Lance's dad bulit for the combo. It dynos at Lances shop 574.6 HP at 6200 RPM and 570.3 torq. at 4100 RPM. Lance says that my engine is within 5 HP of the one in Jason's car! This is straight off the dyno sheets that Lance has sent me. This engine/trans combo has only 20 passes on it and at legal weight it went 10:81@123 on only it's third pass with a 4:10 gear. It is a 1970 Stage 1 headed legal engine. I am asking $13,000 for the combo that will be COMPLETE carb to pan just as Lance built it with the trans and converter attached. You can hear it run if you want, it is still in the car. The Alf Wiebe 12 bolt rear with a 4:10 lightweight spool and axles may also be for sale for the right offer. I can deliver this for free to Gainesville at the Gatornationals. This is the best that money can buy and according Alf and Lance, it should put a legal car in the 50's with tuning. That is what Alf has run with the same equipment in Jason's old car. My name is Dave and you can reach me in Miami at 305-310-3866 if you are interested. Thanks
Just a quick note. Running larger clearances in a ricing invirment works well in a Buick. BUT you must consider the complete oil flow path.If you dont have enough rod side Clarence you create a static oiling condition where oil stays in the rod journal and squirts out all other bearings causing the oil path not to be complete.The oil must exit the sides of the rod bearings to complete the proper oil path. This is called dynamic oiling . PS Static oiling can indicate good oil pressure but oil staying in the rod bearings soon heats and you know the rest of the story.
Regarding the rocker arms - I do run the 69 type rocker. That is about as far as "stock" goes. Each rocker arm is oiltie bushed and indexed. The rocker stock shafts are replaced with solid nitrited hardened shafts to eliminate flex. The valve spring pressure is quite high for a standard stock rocker arm set-up (325 Lbs on the nose) so you have to run the hardened shaft to keep flex to a minimum. Also you will need to run custom valve spring cups - similiar to Nascar type valve train set-up to keep the valve springs in place. (Please note Jason Line developed and perfected this valve train set-up for stock eliminator Buicks - it is really quite well engineered and very durable). It is interesting to note that the engine receives a lot of attention but the true challenge is getting the production style chassis and suspension sorted out to actually get a 3850LB - 9" tire car to consistently hook. This has proven to be a bigger challenge than putting together a solid drive train. Jody
Yes it is Stew's Old GS. Mr Plummer has did lots of up Grades over the Years. Thats what i no. Mr Plummer can tell you more.
Hello Rick, It is great to hear from a fellow Montanan and somebody who recognizes Stewart Rose's old car! I was nborn and raised in Great Falls, MT and come a family that used to all race at Lewistown in the old days. I bought the GS from Stew in 1992 and it still has the nostalgic Greib Buick Sponsership logos on the car. The story is quite interesting. It took me 8 years to convince him to part with it. As you know it was an all original 1970 Stage 1 he special ordered in 1969 for NHRA stock eliminator. This car war ordered devoid of every power option - no power steering, brakes windows etc. To save weight for class racing he ordered it with aluminum front drum brakes and bench seat . My goal when I bought this car was to return it to competive stock eliminator trim without drastically altering the car. I performed a chassis restoration (frame and suspension only) prior to having a class legal 5-point roll bar installed knowing that once the rollbar was installed it would be difficult to retore the chassis. To date this is the only major modification to the car. Greg Godin in Illinois performed the chassis resto and Jody Scmeisner of S&D Pitpals die the roll bar - both are excellent craftsman!. Today the car still has the original paint and interior and the odometer reads 20K miles. Every number matching part has been preserved. Stewart took excellent care of this car and I have gone to great lengths to preserve one of the few remaining orignal survivors while still campagning it as an NHRA class car. Remember earlier I said I had a goal of returning Stew's car to competitive Stock eliminator trim? I almost succeeded in reaching my goal but have come up a little short. I did not realize the amount of "rules migration" that has occurred since stock eliminator was first contested. Since I am unwilling to do the things it takes to "be competitive" I am about .4-.6 seconds off the pace. If you ever attend a division six stock eliminator event you can rest assured this car is 100% legal to the NHRA rules in everyway possible but as D/SA car minus all of the tricks it is unfortunately not competitive. I am in the process of changing things up a bit and currently working on a superstock program in which I can do many of the things the stockers do but legally. My new goal is to see just how fast I can get a 9" tire, production chassis 1970 Stg 1 in stock trim to go while being 100% legal to the NHRA superstock drivetrain rules which include running the 750 Q-jet. Please tell me more about your car and what drove a guy in Malta, MT to become a Buick freak. As far as MT goes I know about 6 true Buick performance enthusiats and all of them are great people!! Please share your story!!! Jody Plummer
Jody After I posted I looked back at the pic and immediatly recognized the Dick Greib on the side. I have known Stewart and this car since 1989 when I first went to Lewistown and was racing my 70 GS. It was Cortez Gold then, I was having troubles with a bog of the line and he loaned me his choke pull off from his old buick powered Ford truck. I have restored the car since then and still run it on our 1/8th mile track here in Malta, but I purchased Jeff Hart's "Ruffo car" in December and will use it instead of beating on the GS, it too has very low mileage 47,000. I believe I have met you in Lewistown after he started driving Nitemare. You are right there are very few Buick nuts in Montana. You should bring the car up to Malta sometime and run here our altitude is only 2400'. We like to think of it as the fastest track in Montana. Where is Stew at now? I sure would like to talk to him sometime. Sorry guys with the walk down memory lane with Jody and his but its been a few years since seeing either. Jody good luck with the adventure. Thanks Rick Starkey
