I am swapping my TH400 out for an Art Carr 200R4. My speed shop guy says the labor cost to do this will be around $1,000 - $1,200. This price deals with all labor issues involving the swap including fashioning trans lines & installing a trans cooler. Is this a fair price? I have used this shop in the past, he does good work and stands behind it. Some other cost he has quoted: approximately $150 for braided SS lines or $90 for hard lines Around $350 for a new drive shaft I have another restoration shop providing an estamate. They have yet to get back to me, so I have nothing to compare this with. thanks for your help Jim
is it 1000 for labor only???? or is he furnishing the lines drive shaft etc....... it will add up quick cost of: trans lines drive shaft fluid tv cable and bracket labor just asking in my opinion 1000-1200 for labor only is high but i dont know his overhead etc...... i would ask more questions and get a written quote just my 2 cents worth scott
Scott, that is labor only. Thats the best estimate he will provide since this is a custom swap. If there were tunnel modifications or If I was using a lockup converter the price would be higher. He charges $95 per hr, it's a mom & pop shop with parts counter & 5 bays. I have costed out all the parts, it will be a rather expesive project when finished. Jim
1000.00/ 95.00 per hour = 10.5 hrs 1200.00/95.00 pre hour =12.6 hrs since i have not done this swap yet i dont know if this is good or bad scott
Ask him to itemize his proposal so you can see how many hours he's estimating for each step. Based on $95/hr he's figuring about 10-12 hours. I did mine myself but I probably laid out $350 just in tools such as tranny jack, a large floor jack and truckstands to get the car 2 feet in the air. It may be worth it if, like you say, he stands behind his work. It's not terribly difficult or complicated but things pop up that a guy with a shop is more likely to be able to deal with on the spot. What is his experience in setting up a 200-4R TV cable? That is critical from the moment you start the car for the first time after the swap. You can't drive off until it's set up properly. In my opinion a line pressure gauge is a must. It'll cost about $80 but it's money well spent.
Bill, This guy works on mostly pre 73 model years, does lots of custom fabrications, hes been doing it for 30 yrs. I assume he knows his stuff when it comes to the 200R4. His first question was where I was going to acquire the TV cable. I would like to attempt this myself but I am lacking space and the proper tools you mentioned. I also know it would take me a month of Sundays to complete based on my schedule. In the mean time the wife will be bitching about the garage being trashed. I was leaning towards going with this guy since I know his work, he is pricey though. $150 for braided trans lines. Does that sound right to you? I think I'll wait for the other shop to come in with their price, they advertise a lower hourly rate for project work. I have not used the new guy before, I did get a good feeling when I visited his shop and saw all the restoration projects he was working on. Youre running a 3.73 gear, are you happy with that setup? I was thinking about going with either a 3.55 or 3.73 gears. How many RPMs do you turn at 70MPH? Thanks Jim
I'm turning about 2,300 RPM's at 70 whereas prior to the swap I was turning 2,200 at 60 with an ST300 and a 2.78 rear. This is with 26" tires. $120 for braided lines is about right. I was going to go that route and it was pretty close to that number when you add in the anodized fittings and 12 feet of hose. I ended up using 5/16" brake line from NAPA. It bends easy and comes with double flare fittings on both ends. A 5' piece is about $9 and you'll need two. You will need adapters because the 200-4R has metric threads on the cooler lines but they are probably included with the tranny. Make sure whoever does the tranny swap knows that a 200-4R, unlike other GM trannys, has the line to the cooler on top and the return line on the bottom. That matters if you're using an auxiliary cooler in conjunction with the radiator cooler because you want the auxiliary cooler on the return line to the tranny. Doing the swap yourself in your garage is definitely a pain in the *ss for the reasons you mentioned plus the fact that when you need a part or a tool you have to stop working and head to the parts store or hardware store. If he breaks down his bid let us know and we'll see if it looks reasonable.
I don't know your local market but you have to ask yourself, two questions: 1) Do you trust him? 2) Can you not afford this upgrade at that price? If you know the guy, trust him and he is known for his attention to detail, the money is probably well spent. On the other hand, if you are tight on cash and can deal with a little risk for the savings, you could look at other alternatives. I'm having a th200-4r built for my 70 stage 1 car and just got my fresh 3.73 10-bolt, with a TrueTrac and rear discs from monzaz. I am capable of mechanically swapping the tranny but the setup of the TV cable and the impending failure should it not go well are not my cup of tea. In my younger, poorer days I'd have fiddled and figured it out myself. Today, I have a bit more cash and a bit less spare time. Piece of mind is priceless in some situations. In the end, what amount of risk do you find acceptable and how much time and money are you willing to spend doing it a second time if you skimp out and not get it done right the first time? Good luck with your swap and post back if/when it is done. I'm curious to compare notes when both of us are on the road!
I cant comment on the labour but $150 for braided lines (teflon)+ fittings is what I paid.It cost me $400 for my new dr shaft. Jamie
Gregg, This is one of the few guys I trust to leave my car with. I have built a rapport with him over the years; he does good work but is somewhat pricey. Hes got a good rep around the cruise-ins. I checked around a few other shops they may have had a cheaper rate but they did not leave me with a good feeling, so I blew them off. My other restoration shop just reported back, their within a couple hundred bucks but conceivably could be higher based on the upper hr range. As far as being able to afford this project, the money is there, I just hate parting with it. My desire it to keep the cost of my project down as much as possible. Then again, I really have no desire to be underneath the car this time of year freezing my azz off. Theres also a few things about this project I could really screw up if Im not careful, so like you said PIECE OF MIND IS PRICELESS. You answered my question, thanks.
Glad you came to a decision you are comfortable with even if it is more expensive. Someone that will stand behind their work is getting harder and harder to find. Everybody is happy when it goes well but it is how they deal with it when it doesn't go as planned that makes the difference. Mine hasn't started yet but I did get my quadrajet modified to work with a factory style TV cable. I also found this link for the factory style shifter gate to make use of the different detents if you are interested. http://www.shiftworks.com/buick.htm
I ordered my tranny, converter and accessories from Art Carr this week. He has a 10% off discount on transmission and converter till the end of the year. He pretty easy to talk to on the phone, he seems to think I can drop a full second by moving to his setup. I ordered the 750 HP upgrade and the 10 inch converter. He carries all those hard to find parts like the bracket for your quadrajet that you mentioned. http://www.cpttransmission.com/ I ordered a Shift Arm Connection Kit from shiftworks for my column shifter. The center console is another future project. I have the console but no shifter mechanism and I can't decide on the buckets I want.
Sounds high to me, but it's a crap shoot if you go to a shop you don't know. You might get it done for half the price and end up with troubles that bring the cost up to the original quote or more. There is a lot to be said for feeling good about the work that's done. Nothing quite so bad as dishing out all that cash and having troubles with the work. If you are not going to do it yourself, and you don't know another shop that you trust, any cost savings will be made up for with peace of mind.
I did the same swap on my 53 a while back. I had about 15 hours in it. No tranny jack, no hoist, and no help. It took about 3 hours to drop the 400 and bolt the 200R4 in. The rest was a learning process. That was 3 years ago and I was only 68. Might take me longer now:laugh: Seriously I think the guy is a little long on the time he is figuring. He should have all the equipment and experience there is no reason for it to take so long. IMHO Bob H.
Bob, He may be padding it a little bit. The other shop estimated from 8 - 16 hrs with no guarantees on those estimates meaning it could go higher; he also wanted 500+ for the drive shaft. One thing I did not mention is, my guy is also going to repair my nagging oil pan leak for $250 which is a decent price. The other shop wanted 8 hrs for this job. I was not looking forward to that job. I'll just bite the bullet and pay the piper. He'll have it for a few days, but it will be done. I'll grumble over the cost for a while but I'll get over it. Jim
There can be a lot of little stuff. I swapped a steering column & the trans in an 82. Now I need to make a different shift shaft (connects to side of trans) to cover every position. That means bend one a bit, change angle & length of the arm to the pushrod from the column. This stuff takes time to get just right. Bruce Roe
Oil pan leak $250??? Is he just changing the gasket or buying and installing a new oil pan? Even with a brand new pan going on....$250???
That comes out to approximately 2.5 hrs to lift the motor and make the repair. That sounds good to me. I don't have an engine hoist. I live in the DC area. My guy charges $95 per hr, there are cheaper rates, but I know this guy will do the job correctly.
