Just bought a new MSd dist. for my 462 motor. First thing I notice is a tag on the of the dist stating that the dist gear not be broken in with synthetic oil. Called MSD and the were very emphatic about not using syn for the first 15 minutes of operation. They recommend 5 w racing oil. i just changed oil 2 days ago and hate to loose a quart and then throw away 5 qt of racing oil. how inportant is the break in period for th e MSD gear. Is MSD just over cautious? The problem is not about changing oil 3 times but i have never run into this situation before. Ken
Maybe some of our engineers could chime in here, but I'm guessing it's worth while to change out the oil for the break in. (Maybe use one of momma's tupperware containers and re-use the oil!!?) I know that part of the break in cycle is about creating proper working clearances by allowing some scuff or wear for a while, and I'm guessing that the break in period may also play a role in "heat-cycling" the parts, which enhances their longevity. That's the same principle you hear about with cryogenics and "vibratory" stress relief. People want to heat up and cool down the parts several times so that the base metal assumes a more stable form. I'd never heard of a distributor gear needing it, but then, I've never replaced one! Guess my 33 year old one has been cycled enough!
Y ou know, I follow the gear and cam maker's instructions and put natural oil in the engine for break-in, then...I replace it with...more natural oil, not all that snake oil synthetic garbage.
MSD gear break in I knew what every one would say about the break in period with reg oil. Tommorrow I will drain my syn oil with 15 miles on it and save it for later. I don't want to get into a great debate about syn oil vs reg oil. I thought I would try it and see how it works. If I don't like it I will repace it with reg oil. Ken:grin: :grin:
MSD gear break in I knew what every one would say about the break in period with reg oil. Tommorrow I will drain my syn oil with 15 miles on it and save it for later. I don't want to get into a great debate about syn oil vs reg oil. I thought I would try it and see how it works. If I don't like it I will repace it with reg oil. Ken:grin: :grin:
IgnitionMan, what does HRC (Honda Racing for others on the board) and some of the other "outer limit" racing teams use for oil. Not that it necessarily means its the best thing to put in an old Buick.
You bring up an exellent question, they use a modified partial synthetic oil. What comes out of their bottles sometimes isn't what the label says, that is done in all forms of "racing" over-hype advertizing. Now, one has to understand that the parts in those engines are the exact same as we have, BUT...very different. Our old Buick stuff is made of slag metal compared to the metallurgy of the late Japanese parts. Our cranks can be treated to help this or that, but theirs are surface hardened down to at least 1.50mm, and can use the snake oils they do, pistons are different, cams are too, lots of difference in the parts used, oil compatibility-wise, And since I have never seen a new Japanese metallurgy/treated 455 Buick crank, I'll stick with the dead dinosaur stuff. Honda used to run a 500cc two stroke V4 in motorcycle road racing, won a few world championships. Those pistons in that engine also fit their 250 V twins and 125 single engines. What is surprizing is, those pistons used FIVE different coatings on them, in five different areas, to make them live longer. They had different plating materials added to the top, upper ring lands, lower ring lands, skirts, and the pin bores. All five of those coatings are also used on their new two year old RC201V, V-5 ( five cylinder) four stroke road racing motorcycle engines, and they are world champions in their first, and this second year of existance. Honda does the same with their stock 4 stroke engines as well. We don't have that stuff, now do we. Natural oils for my Buick/Rover/Leyland engines, thanks. Interesting note: I was down to my sister's last Monday, stopped on the way at my pal, Steve's place. He is the chief tech inspector for the World Superbike Championship Series. On his desk was an interesting piston. He took an insider's tour of DEI, and asked for a souvenir, and got one. Piston, 1 each, restrictor plate type engine, defective, BILLET, FULLY MACHINED (DEI makes these things in-house). Nope, not forged into a slug to cut, but a piston cut on a CNC machine, from a solid round forged piece of billit aluminum. Beautiful, nice, bitchin' just DOES NOT DESCRIBE THIS "DEFECTIVE" PISTON. If you had one fo these for your desk, you would definately not use it as an ash tray.
You want "save the break in oil for use later"? If I understood what was written a couple of responses back. Guys, and gals now that I think of it, there is a reason for most things and some pretty good ones given various places about break in procedures regarding oil for new engines. A new engine has only one chance to be broken in correctly. To do this, you need a quality dinosaur based oil. It allows the appropriate amount of friction so that all those new parts can get comfortable with each other, which is after all, the point of breaking in an engine. While all of these parts are getting to know each other, there is a significant amount of wear until the parts get used to each other, especially in that all important first hour of life for your new prize. All of this wear means that there are lots and lots of little metal particles floating around in your oil. That is why on ALL new engines coming out of my garage, this is the procedure: Fill the crankcase with quality petroleum based oil. Manually pressurize the oil system using a hand drill and appropriate adaptor to spin the oil pump until every pushrod has oil squirting out of it. Sometimes it's necessary to rotate the engine, by hand, a couple of turns to get all of the pushrods to play. I can check for leaks at this point also. Fill the radiator with plain water and pressurize it with a pressure test tool. This lets me verify that there are no leaks in the cooling system. Verify the ignition timing is close enough to start the engine and not have backfires or have it retarded enough to overheat the engine. Visually check all of the fuel connections to verify no leaks and that all fittings are tight. Push the car OUT of the garage and have a fire extinguisher handy. Have my helper crank the engine until it starts, then have the helper keep a close eye on the oil pressure and water temp. This person is not allowed to leave the car until we have shut down from this initial start up. He or she has 100% clearance to shut down if oil pressure drops under 10 lbs at any point or if water temp goes over 220 at any point. It stays shut down until I can figure out the problems. I take over under the hood and adjust the throttle stop until it is running at or close to 2000 RPM. All this time I am visually checking for oil/water leaks. We run the engine this way for about 15 minutes. As long as everything is doing ok, at this point I will back off the throttle stop and begin to manually vary engine RPM from as low as 1000 and then up to 3000, in slow increments. Once we have about 30 - 45 minutes on the engine, we shut it down and allow it to cool down. Typically, depending on the headgaskets used, I'll verify the torque on the head bolts or studs once it has cooled down. After the oil is cool enough to drain, and has had a chance to drip most of it back into the pan, I'll drain the break in oil out and change the filter. You would be shocked at just how dirty this "fresh" oil can look!. I fill the crankcase yet again with petroleum based oil and put the car through about 100 miles of easy street time. The dino juice gets changed again then. Nearly all of the break in wear has occured by this time. After that, I'll go to a synthetic with a new filter. My strong suggestion is to toss the oil you broke the engine in on, along with the filter and do another change after at least 50 but no more than 150 miles of taking it fairly easy on that new engine. Then if you like and prefer, go for the synthetics. They have been proven to increase rear-wheel horsepower numbers and do a better job of preventing wear. If not, this hobby/sickness has been getting along pretty darn well for many years on petroleum products. Just my $.02 :bglasses: I've not had a problem with premature wear using this procedure yet, and that's after screwing together quite a few engines. Race only engines get much the same treatment, just longer break in time and (Ahem), no street time, honest.....:laugh: Once the race motors get at least 2-3 hours on them, they get wailed on. They seem to hold together pretty well too.
Hi Guys: This motor I am talking about has 3000 miles on with petrolem oil. Never had a problem. I was just thinking about Mobil ! being in all new Vettes Vipers and several new foreign cars that it can't be all that bad. I will not put back in the old syn oil even with 15 miles on it. That goes against my better thinking. I did talk to a local race engine builder and he said NO syn oil in any of his motors. This is a street car but does see the quarter mile on occasion. I am in a quandry now as I have heard many good things about syn oil. Less friction and less wear on internal parts. Many years ago on a 77 Cherokee Chief i changed to Ams oil for the differentials. This was full time 4 wheel drive vehicle. With reg rear end oil the car would sit in the drive out of gear and not move. My drive has a slight incline. After changing to Amsoil I drove around the block several times and parked in the same location as before. The Cherokee rolled down slowly but never the less it moved down the drive as before with pet oil it would roll with the slight incline. End of story. I will need more info before i make up my mind as to which oil to use. How about red Line oil? Supposed to be pretty quality stuff I have heard. I will make a few calls tommorrow and let you know the lastest in the saga of oils. Ken
