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Muncie rebuild thread

Discussion in 'U-shift em' started by CJay, Feb 24, 2025.

  1. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    I wound up taking my recently acquired Muncie M20 apart to rebuild it. It's really amazing how easily this trans comes apart.

    I watched a bunch of Paul Cangialosi's videos, watched his DVD and read his book. It literally took me 15 minutes to completely blow the trans apart.

    There was one press operation. Once I removed the main shaft, aka the "shiskabob", I removed the front snap ring. The 3/4 hub just pulls off with third gear. I took the rear snap ring off and put a bearing splitter under second gear and pressed down from the tail of the main shaft. Once the second gear bushing pressed off, it dropped down to the speedo gear. So the reverse gear is used as a press plate for the speedo. And that was that.

    I hit the counter shaft with a large punch and hammer. Came right out.

    Honestly. The hardest part was cleaning the case and tail shaft. I'm going to post a step by step guide on putting it all together in the next coming week or two

    IMG_20250222_135800_976.jpg IMG_20250222_135757_639.jpg IMG_20250222_135751_804.jpg
     
  2. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    I took the case, tail shaft, mid plate and side cover and cleaned the hell out of them. I used mineral spirits, brass brushes, and finally dawn power wash with a scrub brush.

    After everything was scrubbed clean, I chased all the threads and used a file on all the gasket surfaces to make sure everything was flat. The file takes down any raised edges. You can see the results on the side cover. The shiny areas were "high"

    IMG_20250224_163301_202.jpg IMG_20250224_163319_382.jpg IMG_20250224_163413_145.jpg IMG_20250224_163428_023.jpg
     
    patwhac, knucklebusted, Dano and 2 others like this.
  3. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Heading to D&L Transmissions next week to pick up the rebuild kit.
     
    knucklebusted likes this.
  4. bignastyGS

    bignastyGS Maggot pilot

    I have a Muncie that I got in a deal with some motors but it was all apart so I don't know what is missing or if everything is there or not. Would like to have it reassembled but,I don't have the guts to tackle it..Heck,it took me 30 years till I got enough courage to put 1/4's on my car..Nice Job Jason!
     
    Dano likes this.
  5. Mike Sobotka

    Mike Sobotka Founders Club Member

    Have several to build if you're up to it...
     
    Dano likes this.
  6. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    As long as your not in a rush. How many are we talking about?
     
  7. Brett Slater

    Brett Slater Super Moderator Staff Member

    Are you planning on beefing it up to maybe M22 or M23 territory?
     
  8. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    I'd like to build this to go into a small block GS or Skylark down the road. So id like to keep it as a wide ratio. But we'll see what's available at D&L
     
  9. knucklebusted

    knucklebusted Well-Known Member

    Please ask if they have the ultra-wide/Z gear set available if you don't mind.
     
  10. Buicksky

    Buicksky Platinum Level Contributor

    Nice Jason, is that a 660 or 661 case? Or an older M20? I will be watching.
     
  11. painekiller

    painekiller Well-Known Member

    Looking good. Ive done 3 of them in the last 2 years (2-M20s and an m21) They really are a pretty simple transmission.
     
  12. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Picked up parts yesterday. Bought a rebuild kit with the good synchro rings and the extended fit countershaft. Bought a pair of "zero rock" sliders, new reverse idler and new reverse gear. Everything purchased from Larry at D&L Transmissions. Super nice guy and has forgotten more about Muncies than most people know.

    IMG_20250302_101248_914.jpg
    IMG_20250302_101414_639.jpg

    I brought the case with me and my "box o junk" for him to look over. He went through everything and told me what was good and bad. His keen eye picked up on some problems with my gear set.

    Unfortunately, the input and cluster was no good. He pointed out that second gear was starting to come apart and the engagement teeth were a little worn on a couple. Larry has a really nice set of used GM M-20 gears he gave me a really good deal on so I bought them. They're as good as you can get as far as used gears go. They're literally like new.

    IMG_20250302_101325_887.jpg

    Larry went through some rebuilding tips and tricks when I start to put it together. He was a wealth of knowledge. So we're all set to put this trans back together next weekend!
     
  13. philbquick

    philbquick Founders Club Member

    Check the bumps in the middle of the 3 keys that go under the synchro sliders. Those bumps along with the big semi-circular spring are what apply pressure on the brass synchro rings and make the synchronizer work. Also, keep the end play of all the components that go on the main shaft to under .005".
     
    charlierogers likes this.
  14. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    I'll be putting a couple of the sub assemblies together this weekend including the synchronizers. I'm going to test fit the gears to the synchronizers and make sure the keys dont drag on the rings. This is a good video on checking them before it all goes together

     
    timesublime likes this.
  15. philbquick

    philbquick Founders Club Member

    Good video! Most of this video was about how to deal with aftermarket parts. When I was rebuilding these for a Chevy dealer in the early 70s I didn't need to deal with these anomalies because I was using all GM parts, they gave whatever parts I needed. 2 things he's not considering in the length of the keys is 1) the hubs will never be bound together like the, they'll have a few thousandths of clearance between them. 2) the brass rings will loose a few thousandths during break-in. Also, the end play of the components on the main shaft is important. If it's too much it could walk out of gear with variations of the throttle. Since the gear teeth are cut at an angle, the gear will go from one end of the end play to the other every time you get on a off the throttle which could cause it to walk out of the synchro slider.
     
  16. charlierogers

    charlierogers GSX stage 1 4 speed #149

    i wont rebuild Muncie's/ st-10 anymore unless friend or cust opts for new internals. most this stuff is 50+ years old and i dont care how it looks, they all have seen much use. alot of it abused lol. btw allways use goodguy parts dont cheap out or you will be sorry! been using midwest muncie for years A+++. LOVE THE AUTO GEAR PARTS.
    CHARLIE
     
    Dano and philbquick like this.
  17. mikec

    mikec Well-Known Member

    I rebuilt my factory M21 installing a new reverse gear, no rock sliders, billet mid plate tail housing and new blocking rings. It was actually a rewarding experience because going into it I didn’t think I could do it. One thing I found that when setting the front nut tension it was best to twist the input and output shafts by hand and get a good feel for how “tight” the main shaft was
     

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