Ok We weighed my pig

:rant: OK now I know the numbers on my car.

WIth a full tank of fuel and driver and the jump box on the right side next to the real battery.

Left front 1106.8
Right frt 1034.6
right rear 962.3
left rear 1032.5

I was going out to add a second battery in the trunk and see what that does for the numbers. So at this time can anyone tell me whats the matter with the car?? Just looking for someone who knows not guess's please.

I will work on moving around some weight too but I still really have no idea yet what it all means.

 

ok now with an extra battery in the trunk the numbers are.....

Left frt 1098.6
right frt 1040.8
rh rear 978.8
lft rear 1042.8

 

Oh yea I can send anyone that wants it a video of my last run this year. I smoked a rustang out of the gates but got beat at the end as my 1030 wouldnt hold up to a 969

 

Thats not a PIG it's a HOG

Thats not a PIG it's a HOG :eek2:

Where did all the extra weight come from?


Mike
carcrazy455@yahoo.com

 

Same car I have ran for 3 years no additional weight but the battery of 40 lbs...

 

MG, looks like you should add a POS in the RR, to get even, I want to do the same with my car, and other stuff, etc. First I got to get in on the scales! :laugh: :bglasses:

 

you need more spring preload in the LF and/or RR or else less in the RF and LR unless you have a anti-roll bar that you can adjust it out with.

You want the RR to push down more on the pavement (ie support more of the car's weight) that the LR for sure.

What do you have for springs?

To get a better feel for what you are doing, stick a piece of 2x4 under the LF tire and see how it changes your scale readings. Then do the same for the RR or do both at the same time.

 

Yeah, I agree with Adam. Your cross weights are messed up. Your front end looks alright (left side heavier), but your rear is backwards. A properly set-up chassis will "cross", meaning that if the LF is heavy, so is the RR. In a drag car, especially A-bodies, you want the LF-RR to be heavier than the RF-LR. You might have a bent frame. You CAN adjust it out with a sway-bar, but you really shouldn't. A sway-bar should be neutral at ride height. Get the springs/alignment/frame checked first, then add the sway-bar, then maybe add a little pre-load to the sway-bar if necessary to make it launch straighter.

Have fun.

 

And lose some weight! :Smarty:

 

What if my springs were shot?? I am positive they are so if they were junk would this be still my problem??

 

4100+........I really think the rollcage is solid round bar rather than tubing. :laugh:

 

As I suspected here I will end up with more crap than help. I have no idea why my car is heavy. I have a swiss cheese frt bumper brackets with a plastic front bumper. I have a glass hood. I have an alunimum radiator. I have the battery in the trunk. I have scraped all the sound deadnin from the floors. I have removed the vinal top. What else can I do? (without butchering a real BBB 4 speed car)

 

Mike,Mike,Mike......

I've read where people,Myself included,Have taken the time to help you.
Be it here,Or at BG where I know Bobb M. and Jeff H. helped (Tires).
I know BUICKS4SPEED made some nice suggestions for weight loss a while back.
My car is 600LBS :shock: lighter and no less complete......Heck,I've even still got my chrome/steel frt bumper......

Have you gotten rid of the FAT radials on the frt?
Lightweight brakes?
Chromoly cage?
Lightweight seats?
Heater removal?
Gut an extra set of doors?
Remove qtr window mech,'s?
Lightweight trans x-member?

All these items can be returned to stock.......
Other than the cage which you already have.
A common mistake when adding a cage that most people make is poor planning,They hit the 11's or so and just ''slap'' in a 6-point rollbar and then go faster and add a full cage because they "have to".....What you end up doing is short-cutting and taking away from the car.
I think a nicely done cage can add to a car GS or not depending on what the car is built for.

But.....Don't make it like "I've done this myself" or "Nobody will help me" because alot of people have tried/offered,Once again myself included,Even off forum,about 3 years ago I ordered one of your aluminum shifter handle pieces I included a note asking about you combo so to compare notes and you never responded,It was before you met me so maybe that's why?

Hoefully you see that 9 second pass,But until you get rid of about 250lbs or add power I think the car is about where it should be.

I just hope you "Park the car" again......That's what I remember before the trans rebuild.
Now we're back to "Getting that 9"?
Good,Then DO IT......DO IT........ :Smarty:

A little ''tough love'' from Ohio :TU:

 

OK, consider this a question of 4-scale ignorance.

Is there a possibility that these different weights include some crossover from the other 3 corners?

...kind of a "the sum of the parts total more than the whole" sort of thing?

Maybe there's a couple hundred extra "total" pounds based on adding all the individual totals?

 

Mike,

No need to have a chip on your shoulder. If people didnt give a crap about your problem they wouldnt post help. No need for you to get pissed about it, but hey, I dont believe your car weighs 4100 either. But.............just for the sake of arguement, lets say it does, soooooooooooo..............

Against your opinion, EVERYONE here does not know your car, so work with me here if you would please. First, your biggest problem is not suspension, its weight. Why does the car weigh 4100? Could it be possible that your car came from GM with a convertible frame?? Have you checked?? Stranger things have happened and that could account for the additional puffiness. That extra weight is coming from somewhere, it isnt just a miracle that your 70 GS is the heaviest known to mankind....FIND IT. Saying you dont know aint gonna work, you HAVE TO KNOW. Were the above weights with you in the car? If not then throw them out the window because the car doesnt drive itself down the track. By the way, gas weighs about 7 lbs per gallon, NEVER run or weigh the car with a full tank, unless your "tank" is a 3 gallon fuel cell. If you have a stock tank then by my estimate, you had at least 119 pounds of unneeded weight in the car when you weighed it. And forget the extra battery in the trunk, you dont need it and it will slow you down. Nothing extra should be in the car or in the trunk when you weigh the car or race the car. No spare tire, jack, tools, nothing.

Second, once you have FULLY addressed the weight issue, lets move to the front suspension. Without the front suspension setup correctly, the rear suspension is simply defining VOLUME, it has mass and it takes up space. Nothing more. So lets make sure everything is copasetic up front first.

Do you still have the Stock front Control arms and bushings?? If not then what do you have up front? Is the front suspension loose and well greased so up and down travel effort is non existant? Jack the front of the car up and spin the front tires, are the brakes nice and loose??

Front shocks, what do you have?? Are they race shocks set loose? Say 10/90? How about front springs?? Nice and spongy??

Ok, now the rear suspension. EXACTLY what do you have now? TIRES???? I think I remember you installed the HR antiroll? What upper and lower control arms do you have? What springs are in the rear now? Do you have no hop bars? Do you run air bags and if so how much pressure? What shocks do you have in the rear now?

If you will take the time to answer ALL of the above questions I think you can get enough feedback here that, if you listen to it and most importantly act upon it, you can get the thing straightened out and run your number. I think everyone here just wants to help, not be chastised for their comments. Especially me, so if you dont like my post dont comment, just delete it, and I will mind my own business. I'm just trying to help get to the bottom of this because YOU ASKED FOR HELP. Frankly, I have seen pics of your car carrying the front tires with your current combo, and when its doing that its hooking, not spinning down the track. The back of the car is squatted down, the front is in the air and its on the way out. It looks to me like the suspension is working in the photos I have seen of your car.

LASTLY, and be honest, what 60' is your best with THIS combo?? I see a 10.18 is your best e.t., what does the car typically run, 10.30's ??? And what 60 foots does it normally run at its normal e.t.??

Ok, for a recap and please answer all:

WHY does the car weigh 4100? You have to know!! Do some investigating and find out.
List in detail all front suspension pieces on your car now and how they are set up. Is the front alignment correct?
List in detail all rear suspension pieces on the car now and how they are set up.
List rear tire selection on the car now and how old are they? Still the throw aways from Jeff Hart??
Are the brakes front and rear nice and loose?
Give us a rundown of your 5 best passes with the current combo and the corresponding 60', 1/8th and 1/4 et and mph.
What size is the carb? What squirters are in the carb? Does the carb have rear jet extensions?
Do you have a Stage 2 hood and air pan? If not why, it will go faster, that 535 has to breathe and it CANNOT do that under a 'glass Stage 1 hood!!
What converter is in the car, who made it and what are its numbers? Does the trans fluid smell burnt?
Spark plugs, what kind and how often do you change them?

You may think some of these questions are stupid, but until you know the answer to them all then you MAY be shooting at a moving target.

Right Gary?

 

Mike, did you use 4 scales to weigh the car, or 1 scale and move it around to each position, and then tally the weights???? something is seriously wrong with the calculations. My Wildcat convertible weighs less than your car does. My GS weighed 3815 w/ driver, 1/2 fuel, with absolutely zero body/chassis lightening or glass components. My car went 9.90 @135.95 with your engine.

JH :bglasses:

 

Mike, something better than getting advice from all of us. You can get one or 2 books to read and make your own decisions. Doorslammers: the chassis book from S&W racecars, and the other one that I haven't read is from Jerry Bickel racecars.

It's not rocket science, but does take alot more thought than what you can get over a bulletin board very easily.

 

Weight, all aspects......

Ok, dealing with this in the order of importance ..... :laugh:

Bolt-on weight, no Butchering........

CM steering rods with spherical rod ends connected to billet alum arms off the spindles

Aluminum master cylinder w/ plastic tank

If you have a fiberglass fnt bumper than go with aluminum brackets

Definitely go with a set of tubular TRZ type front upper and lower control arms and wilwood brakes or Aerospace.

Aluminum manual steering box

Race bucket seats worth almost 100 lbs. over stock buckets.

Get rid of the heater box, how much driving do you do in the winter anyways.

CM cage but that is a hard change.

Remove the front sway bar if its still there.

Have a CM transmission cross member built. Or swiss cheese an extra one laying around.

Run a pin on hood and ditch the hood hinges. - It does require two people anytime the hood needs to come off, but how many times are you alone with the car? Install the hood pins in the hood bumper stop locations. No new holes.

You can gut a set of skylark doors as Gary said I think when I cut out my door braces they were right around 20lbs for both.

Fiberglass rear deck lid.

Replace the front radials with drag tires.

These are all bolt-ons that don't alter the interior or exterier appearance. Also, this means they can be unbolted and put on another Skylark if a race car is in the future.


On the weight..... I only get 145lbs difference from left to right which I can't see that as a problem considering its with the driver and compared to your total weight. You could use a little preload in the rear sway bar but overall I think it looks ok. Add about 1/2" -1" preload to the right rear sway bar to even the weight in the rear. Or you can take 1/2 -1" away from the left side. Either way it works out the same. I know this will add weight to the front left but it will also add more stored energy to the spring if it alters the pre-adjustment height. What was the measured height at all 4 corners while weighing? With only a 145 total, I don't know that you would have seen much if any.

I know your tired of hearing guys bother you about your cars weight but it is an issue at 4100+ lbs. Even if your ok with it, its extra abuse and wear-n-tear on your driveline and can be considered more of a safety issue the faster you go. THe heavier you are the harder it is to correct going down the track especially when you consider how unstable the sidewalls are on slicks. THe more weight you have, the more dangerous it makes it.

On the front springs, If you don't have to run spacers and the ride height is ok, I wouldn't say there shot. BUT if there are stock springs, they don't have the "stored energy" or push as a drag spring would. Drag springs give more lifting force to full extension whereas stock springs give up after a couple inches.

 

Yes I asked for help, I prefer less the smart ass comments

OK here it is I am looking for assistance. I KNOW its heavy I still dont beleive the scales were totally accurate since I weighed the car at BG for Garys sake and it was 3990 with a full tank after 1 run me in it. With that in mind the numbers still show a problem. I also have installed plastic race seats since it was weighed at BG
attempt to answer the questions here as best as I can. And since noone really does know my car maybe it will help get me a 9. That is the goal and as soon as I accomplish that I WILL be in the market to buy a real RACE CAR. That has been the goal since the beginning, it hasnt changed. As soon as I get it the new goal is tube/back half car and going for the 8s.

1 Could it be possible that your car came from GM with a convertible frame?? Have you checked?? NO Its a HT frame.

2 Do you still have the Stock front Control arms and bushings?? If not then what do you have up front? Yes stock front end with all new bushings a couple years ago. I have left them loose and I have 90/10s and finned alunimum drums. The springs were the Moroso ST frts but they sagged so bad when I put the 535 in I had to replace them (with stock springs) When I did the car went faster in the 60 foots 1.58s to the low 1.50s. I have had a best of 1.46 here at Heartland Park Topeka But the et was a 10.20 @134
I have done an alignment with the front of the car lifted up as if it was traveling down the track.

3 Ok, now the rear suspension. EXACTLY what do you have now? TIRES???? I think I remember you installed the HR antiroll? What upper and lower control arms do you have?

What springs are in the rear now? Do you have no hop bars? Do you run air bags and if so how much pressure? What shocks do you have in the rear now?
This will take awhile here: I have Global west tubular lowers and BMR upper adjustables, HR antiroll bar, adjustable rear shocks set in a nuetral setting atr this time (noone has ever helped figure out wether to be loose or tight there) I have air bags but once the HR bar was installed it was recommended no air. The tires are MT ET Drags 29.5X11. They are 11 passes old. I set the upper control arms to the 4 negitive for the pinion angle. I have not rechecked it since, as it shouldnt have changed. But I can easily enough. The brakes are all new parts and yes I have them loose. I dont take brakes lightly (never have)

4 Give us a rundown of your 5 best passes with the current combo and the corresponding 60', 1/8th and 1/4 et and mph. All I could find was one time slip fast so here it is. I ran this llast saturday
60.........1.506
330.......4.248
1/8th....6.574
MPH ....105.33
1000.....8.592
1/4.......10.309
mph....132.00

As for the carb I have only jetted it one time up as the guy who was helping me is a VERY good source of info. Gary STinnett who builds a lot of the Super Comp racers carbs is my source. He also ran the dyno on my engine and said that my carb has excellent numbers. That was also agreed to by another guy at the rear wheel dyno I went too.

5 Do you have a Stage 2 hood and air pan? If not why, it will go faster, that 535 has to breathe and it CANNOT do that under a 'glass Stage 1 hood!!
What converter is in the car, who made it and what are its numbers? Does the trans fluid smell burnt?
Spark plugs, what kind and how often do you change them?
No I have a stock glass bolt on hood with the back of it jacked up to keep the carb from sucking it down. The converter is an ATI I can foot brake it to about 3200 at the start. I have tried launching at idle all the way thru as hard as it can hold it. The trans nis brand new with straight cut gears and new fluid. Spark plugs,............ I change them every race.

I have a vac pump on it too. I have small pully and the alt runs on the crank only. The water pump is electric. I have a 3.5 inch complete exhaust from front to rear with the magnaflo SS race mufflers and a DR GAS X pipe. I took out the low gear set this year as I spilt them in half. I have a 12 bolt with a 410 gear and a spool. TA Girdle on the cover and c clip eleiminators. ANything else needed to know?

OK I have seen a 65 Impala run 9.50s with the same wheels and tires I have here locally. So I know this can be done. I still need a veiwpoint on the springs for the rear, what do I need to buy? I have 25 year old stock ones now. Jim R. If you want to call me and we can hash this out alittle email me for my number. I tried to call your number earlier. :Comp:

Here is the set up for weighing I used