Open chat thread for Buick 350 Camshafts

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by sean Buick 76, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    I am all for not over camming the 350 however the TA212 cam is about as mild as I would bother puting in an engine:

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...up-info-and-dyno-results&highlight=roller+cam

    Here are some cams that were based on trial and error, dyno testing, and circle track racing:

    http://www.iskycams.com/pdfcatalog/2004-05/page70.pdf

    Although it may not be feasable for most people to use a roller cam due to cost it really is the answer when looking for hidden power through a broad RPM range... I sold my roller cam to Jim for his project here:


    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...nally-gets-to-1-4-mile!&p=2257120#post2257120
     
  2. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    great that you opened this for discussion. I have looking at cams for the past few months. I know isky has some other grinds for 350 ,schnieder has several seemingly strong cams that's are still mild lift and duration ,haven't heard anyone really brag about lunati voodoo cams or comp cams mutha thumper series which are the only new designs I have found. Howards cams has a few grinds that have some nice specs also. actually found one I want to dump my ta310 for in my n/a engine. everyone seems to stick with the same cams that have been around for 30 yrs .not that they don't work but I kinda feel there should be a better design/grind that will optimize the potential of say a 9 to 1 350 with ported heads/big valves and 4 barrel intake. AM&P and other shops seem to only get about 350hP with a big valve ported head 9.6 to 1 350 with a ta intake and headers.althou am&p uses the 310 cam and trishield used the 212 and gave up about 20-30 ponys .
     
  3. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    I think Sean is baiting me...

    Too bad I wore myself out on that last thread lol
     
  4. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    I don't knwo what time it is there, but I just woke up LOL!
     
  5. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    I was wondering what happen to you
     
  6. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    I think I've lost my mind. Spending too much time on this number crunching and I think part of my brain got sucked out into the calculator. :eek2:


    Though there's some camshaft chit-chat going on in this thread I was recently a part of: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?274406-HP-numbers

    Sean seems to be thinking about cams too, he's been commenting in other threads about cams and then creates this one. :D

    My biggest problem is my brain is all over the place and I go off on a tangent on someone's thread and before I know it, it's hi-jacked. I don't mean any harm, I just become a chatterbox.

    I think Sean wants me to keep things organised and this is his subtle hint by making this thread. :p


    BTW Sean....what's the specs on that roller cam? or is that top secret for now?

    ---------- Post added at 11:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 PM ----------

    I don't have any secrets that I'm aware of :grin:

    Here's a small list of cam ideas I've worked on over the weeks/months, some are old ideas, others are more modern. Everything's constantly changing.




    HTML:
                 Stock 1.55   @.050    Advertised   Lobe Center   Power Range   Overlap @.050    Comp. @ 8:1      Idle
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
                  Int./Exh.  Int./Exh.  Int./Exh.     @.050
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    
    
    Speed Pro
    Stock        .377/.392   189/208    270/293        112.75      1200-4200       -27.00             10.2        Smooth
                                                     (109.5 int)    (4900)
                                                     (116 exh)
    
    
    Custom GC
    GS-Stock     .392/.408   201/220    282/305        112.75      1500-4500       -15.00             10.77       Smooth 
                                                     (109.5 int)    (5200)
                                                     (116 exh)
    
    
    
    Crower L2    .434/.436   202/210    260/266         112        1500-4000       -18.00              9.5        Smooth
                                                                    (4700)
    
    
                                                                                                                  
    Custom GC    .436/.439   206/216    268/276         113        1700-4300       -15.00              9.9        Smooth
    RV-Street                                                       (5000)
    
    
    
    Crower L3    .446/.468   210/220    276/281         112        1800-4500        -9.00             10.1        Smooth
         
                                                                    (5200)
    
    TA 212
     350         .454/.456   218/230    280/285         110        2000-5000         4.00             10.1         Lopey
                                                                    (5500)
    
    
    Custom GC    
    GS-Street    .451/.453   212/224    280/295         114        2200-5000       -10.00             10.5        Smooth
                                                                    (5600)
    
    
    Custom GC
    S1-Street    .455/.468   220/230    285/290         110        2100-5100         5.00             10.3         Lopey
                                                                    (5600)
    
    
    Custom GC
    Hyd Roller   .465/.480   205/225    280/300         115        1800-4800       -15.00            10.56        Smooth
                                                                    (5500)
    
    
    Custom GC
    Hyd Roller   .466/.488   210/220    275/280         115        2000-4800       -15.00             10.3        Smooth
                                                                    (5500)
    
    
    Custom GC
    Hyd Roller   .466/.488   212/224    280/295         114        2200-5000       -10.00             10.5        Smooth
                                                                    (5600)
    
    
    Custom GC    
    Hyd Roller   .466/.488   220/230    290/300         110        2000-5000         5.00             10.5         Lopey
                                                                    (5700)
    
    
    Custom GC
    Hyd Roller   .466/.488   225/235    290/295         110        2300-5300        10.00             10.5      Very lopey
                                                                    (6000)
    
    
     
  7. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    The cam card for the roller:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Thanks, Sean.

    I showed you mine, and you showed me yours. We're brothers now. :grin:


    Yours is bigger than mine! lol


    It's funny, my biggest one is about the same specs as yours, with less lift and more split pattern design.
     
  9. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    So what so you think about the roller cam?
     
  10. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Pretty close to the biggest one I had listed in my chart in terms of duration, LSA, and overlap. My lift is way less and more split pattern than yours, but yours looks good too.

    It's not uncommon to see straight pattern lift cams with a bit of emphasis on the exhaust, so I think you're on track. :)


    It does play more into the spirit of the 'roller version' of the TA 212 cam though the way it's set up. :TU:

    Now THAT cam will need some serious head work and a massive carb, for sure!

    ---------- Post added at 12:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 AM ----------

    I love the idea of a roller cam because they'll last so much longer than a flat tappet. All one would have to do is overcome the initial expense and you'd have a powerful, long lasting cam.

    It's the main reason I don't want to go much on lift with flat tappet, and keep the lift relatively low/mild even for roller--longevity and valvetrain stability/durability.
     
  11. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    That's an interesting cam. Sean.seems mild by duration but lift doesn't.would think you need heads flowing up around 275 to 290 for that. I just checked Greg gesslers site and see he took the pics off of the custom heads he did that flowed 290 intake and the other one he epoxyed to raise ports for the custom adapter for a Chevy hi port manifold.I think it was over 3000 just in labor.I should have paid more attention to it when it was up. Maybe Sean got some info for the book.I talked with PER race engines the other day(they did some engine masters work)and of course he talked more swap rather the work on a Buick 350 but said he could do whatever I wanted.But didn't seem to offer any answers. thought putting big valves in a Buick was making Chevy parts fit.Did not have much answers about offset grind cranks cept that they send it out.I hear the GN guys using a shop in sleepy hollow ( yes its a town out here)So I'm gonna call them when I get a chance
    .
     
  12. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    Yeah the Gessler ported heads with all the epoxy went to a guy in cali and it made about 590 HP NA.. I should have bought the engine when I had a chance but the guys divorce forced a quick sale of everything and I missed it... The heads re-surfaced for sale a few years back but I missed them again.

    I would not bother with off set grinding, just build 355 (30 overbore) cubes especially if you are using boost. I would not worry too much about head flow either. All that is needed to make 600 HP with 5 PSI of boost is about 230 cfm intake.. Unless you are hunting for 650+ HP just a good head porting would do and just add boost till you run the number you want...
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
  13. UNDERDOG350

    UNDERDOG350 350 Buick purestock racer

    Crower, Crower, Crower.


    Level 2 or 3 makes big block torque on otherwise stock engine. Plus excellent gas milage if that matters to you. I'll be trying the level 4 next.

    I put a 212 cam in a 455 and it was a turd, I can't imagine it's any better in a 350.

    I love TA Performance but their 350 parts offerings are weak. Sorry Mike.

    Those Isky cams are dinosaur tech.

    If your only concern is going rump-rump-rump get the voodoo. If you want lower ET's get the Crower.

    Wasn't there another post with this same discussion?


    And did I mention Crower????????????????????
     
    Dano likes this.
  14. ceas350

    ceas350 "THE BURNER"

    Steve. I looked up those Crowler cams and they list them for 78-88 and these are the "compu" series. How is the vacuum with the level 3? Would you use it for a daily driver?
     
  15. UNDERDOG350

    UNDERDOG350 350 Buick purestock racer

    Crower with no L.

    The 78-88 is a mistake obviously. It should say 68-80 as in their paper catalog.

    Level 3 can be used in a daily driver. I get over 20mpg hwy with TH350 and 3.42 gears. Idles smooth as stock. 16 inches vacuum at 700 idle. I think it's too mild and may go to the level 4 for added top end.

    Gary, see scanned parts book page for cam offerings from 11/73 book. 1 is common for 68-74 and there are 2 oddballs that are NOT performance cams.

    There were 2 different rocker arms used, 68-69 style and 70-74 style. I think the minor differences in these may account for your minor lift listings being different.





    View attachment partsbook cam listings.PDF
     
  16. ceas350

    ceas350 "THE BURNER"

    Thanks what is the rpm power band like in your setup?
     
  17. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Info on those crower cams (2 and 3) I have listed in my list of custom cams as reference points.

    The list is by no means finished. It was just some ideas I put down 'on paper' to store them and come back to later if I wanted to revise or add anything.

    But the Crower level 2 or level 3 specs are listed there, based on catalog info and other research.



    P.S. --Thanks Steve!
     
  18. UNDERDOG350

    UNDERDOG350 350 Buick purestock racer

    It pulls hard from 2000 to my 5200 shift point. It will rev to 5700 but the car is fastest shifting at 5200.
     
  19. GS Jim

    GS Jim Platinum Level Contributor

    Steve, I just picked up a Crower level 3 Cam. I'm running a Poston GS-114 cam right now. Mine is grind Number 284HDP. Lift, .496 int, .505. Ex. Duration at .05 int 226*. Ex. 234* LSA, 112*. I hope to install it this Winter. Problem is, I just bought a '65 Gran Sport. I have a '66/425 taking up space in the Garage. Also an SP 400 Trans. I'm flying out Friday to drive it back home. 2000 mi and NO Cruise control. But it'll be fun anyway.

    PONCH
     
  20. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Level 3 Crower Buick 350 is smaller than that. Is it for a big block? Those Level 3's are bigger.

    Unlike some others, Crower grinds cams specific to the engine CID. Notice in Crower's big block section, that there's 2 versions for each level--one for 400/430 and another (slightly larger) for the 455.

    Cubes matter when designing a camshaft, and there's more to it than just knocking off 2* LSA.

    Note: the cams I have listed are for the Buick 350.

    ---------- Post added at 06:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------

    Like you, I have recommended Crower level 2 and 3 in other threads. I've contemplated getting either one, as both look like very good cams.

    The level 3 sure is tempting. :)
     

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