Dave Back in the good Olds days (or is that daze) when was the work week measured. I am referencing the build date on a data tag and some show a five week month i.e. 3/E would be the fifth week of March. When did the work week start? Monday or Sunday. Was it a 6 day or 7 day week? Also were shifts 8 hour with three shifts per day? There are often comments on build sheets that lead to these questions.
While Dave's answering that question, how about a related one? With date codes where "123" is known as the 123rd day of the year, did they start counting on January 1? Or was the "first" day of the year actually the first day on some fiscal year calendar, which might be, say, Monday, January3, or perhaps Sunday, December 29?
Date Codes I am sure Dave can shed some info on this one as well, my understanding is this is the actual day into the calander year. A code of 123 would be the 123rd day or in this example May 3 in a regular year or May 2nd in a leap year. This type of code is ofter seen as casting code, like on blicks,heads,manifolds,rear end center sections. The same parts may have an assembly code as well. An example is the rear end, center section has a casting date on the center section then the whole unit has an assembly date "stamped" in other locations.
Yikes! I'm not sure I can answer any of that. I worked in manufacturing engineering with production the last five years and we didn't pay much attention to date codes, just the id tags on parts. Our job was to find out what was wrong, then go get the people to sort out the stock. They knew more about that than we did. However,..... We never worked a 3 shift basis while I was there (1966-1973).. We worked 6 days a week almost all the time, except for strikes and new model changeover. Many times we worked (2)- 10 hour shifts, and othe times were scheduled for (2)-12 hour shifts, but actually had to shut down when we couldn't keep pumping cars off the line into the repair system. As far as the parts coming into us, however, from suppliers (internal and external), I really don't know. Sorry I can't help more there.
Guys, Some months did have 5 weeks in them like the example "3/E" which would be the fifth week of March. We can use this month as an example; September 2005 Week, Days of the month Week 1 (1,2) Week 2 (6,7,8,9) Week 3 (12,13,14,15,16) Week 4 (19,20,21,22,23) Week 5 (26,27,28,29,30) (This is figuring only a 5 day work week, but if a saturday was included in the work week then this code would not let us know that.) The Julian date of "123" would be the 123rd day of the year, and would start from January 1st. There are also casting date codes and assembly date codes on many large parts/sub assemblies. For everyone's information, I have begun working on a small book (30-40 pages or so) that will go into every date coding system that was used on our cars, except for the production codes for transmissions and engines. It will include all the calanders from 1964-1972 and will list the date, week number, day of the year, etc. for easy reference. Each date coding system will include a photo/picture example, along with how to decode it, AND the parts it was used on. I plan on doing this over the winter, and should have it finished by next spring. The hope is, that with a knowledge of part numbers, this book will give the owner the ability to decode every date coded part, and let him know if these pieces are "date code correct" for his car. Sorry to jump in here Dave, just thought I would let everyone know. Duane
Duane, Glad to did jump in thanks. Sounds like a great tool to take this to the next level. Reference books are invaluable when you get around cars to that level.
Thanks Dave, The book will concentrate on Buick and Olds information from the late 60's thru early 70's, but much of the information will be useful for other GM cars as well. Duane
Duane, Thanks for the reply (you, too, Dave). From your posts elsewhere on V8Buick, I knew you were working on this for Buicks. I'm glad to hear you're also targeting Olds. Let me know if you're looking for any info on 1970 Olds. I'm into this numbers stuff and have documented some info for at least my small corner of the universe. I've also got lots of factory literature. You're probably aware of this, but I've also found the NCRS literature helpful. While there aren't a lot of parts shared between Corvettes and Buick/Olds, some of the parts numbering/dating info translates nicely. Same for the Camaro Research Group. If a PM or e-mail to me doesn't work, just post here and I'll get in touch with you.
Brian, I also have a 70 442 convertible, and might be interested in copies of some of your factory literature. I have the assembly manual, engine build manual, and a chassis service manual. I wondered why you asked about that particular dating system, but once you said you were into the oldsmobiles I figured you were looking at engine info. I don't have any of the NCRS literature, but would be interested in looking at it, if it's helpful. Duane
Cross lines parts usage Quote "You're probably aware of this, but I've also found the NCRS literature helpful. While there aren't a lot of parts shared between Corvettes and Buick/Olds, some of the parts numbering/dating info translates nicely. Same for the Camaro Research Group" Never approach a Corvette Parts Vendor looking for an Oldsmobile part. I have had many of them tell me "Corvette parts were never shared with any other car". I was looking for things like nuts bolts, vacuum line sets etc. I have a booklet called "The inspectors Guide" which was used by assembly line inspectors to ensure that cars were assembled according to types of options etc. Very useful info on 1970 models in that booklet. Judging from its condition it was not used often.
I asked about the "Julian" dating system because I'm aware that my own employer (for what it's worth) uses a calendar which doesn't start with January 1. The calendar is always aligned to the start of a work week, which is always a Monday. I can imagine other companies do the same. Also, I've talked to original car owners who have parts on their car (such as exhaust manifolds) with casting dates just one day prior to final assembly. Seems a little tight for a casting to cool, get machined, installed on engine, engine shipped to final assembly, and installed in car. So that has made me suspect that day 001 was not always January 1. I don't have it in front of me, but I'm pretty sure the NCRS literature is copyrighted. It represents a lot of work on their part, so I wouldn't feel right copying it. Their prices are reasonable for what's in it. Examples of stuff I've learned from our (ahem) Chevy brethren are the decoding of stampings on Kelsey-Hayes wheels (NCRS) and decoding of all codes on LOF glass (excellent paper from Camaro Research Group).
Brian, I figured you were asking about Olds engine info because that is the dating system Olds used, verses the one Buick used, which listed the month/day. I have also run into dated parts that were very close to the vehicle production date. If you are using the Body build date as a reference, I have seen examples where it appears the tags/paperwork were developed, but the car was not built at that time. Either they were held up due to color batches, or possibly due to option considerations. I know they would not build a batch of high optioned cars all at the same time, but would mix them in with lower optioned cars, so the production line was not held up. I have parts/date code info from several cars that were all supposedly built on the same week (according to the Fisher Body ID tag), and at the same plant. If you look at the date codes for the parts 2 of them look like they were built 2-3 weeks after the others were built. I mean everything is almost exactly 2 weeks later. Something must have held them up. As far as the NCRS literature, if it's copyrighted then I do not want you to copy it, as I said before I do not know of it. From the title I am assuming it is the "National Corvette Research ----", but I don't play with Corvettes anymore, so I am not in that circle. Duane
Duane, thanks for the good info. I shouldn't have played fast and loose with the acronyms. NCRS = National Corvette Restorers Society. These guys are anal. I mean that in the best sense of the word. http://www.ncrs.org/
Brian, Glad to help with the info. The corvette guys have a much easier job then we do, when it comes to authenticating/documenting when changes took place. They only had 1 production plant to contend with for any given year. Our cars were built at many plants and we have documented proof that they were not built the same at all plants. Some plants even used different parts suppliers, window glass comes to mind. That's why we allow ranges of paint gloss, and even plating types when we judge the cars. I and other judges are often asked "What is the correct plating/painting etc. for a specific part." If we return a multiple choice answer, it's not that we don't know the correct answer, it's that we know too many correct answers. Duane
