Primary Choke Blade Position.

I have a question about my Q-jets choke blade. (I think that is what it is called.) It never seems to want to fully open. The car is fully warmed up, and the blade is not totally horizontal. I can move it open with my finger. If I manipulate the throttle, the blade will move to fully open. Is this normal? I think I am running a bit rich at idle, and am wondering if this may be a partial reason? If I move the lever to the " ALT" hole, what will that do for me? Should the blade be open fully when warm, and how do achieve this if mine is not working right? I will attatch some pics. Thanks for the help!
Regards, John.
My pics are too large. I will resubmit, when I retake them.

 

YES, the blade should be fully VERTICAL when the car is warm. You should not be able to open it more.

Can't say that I remember an "ALT" hole for the linkage, though.

Anyway, figure out why the choke coil isn't getting hot enough.

Is this an electric choke, a hot-air choke, or a divorced choke coil?

 

Here they are:
The first picture, is cold, overnight.
The second picture, is about where it is warmed up
The third is wide open with my finger.
The fourth, is of the choke selections I have available.

 

Hi Schurkey,
I think it is a divorced choke. I have just put on the pics. Can I disable the choke, will it mess with the vacuum break system? I don't mind feathering the pedal a few mins.
Regards, John.

 

Thanks Adam,
Would that be the rod from the carb, to the intake manifold, like the one in my bottom picture? The one with the two adjusting holes, and the notch ? I don't know much about Q-Jets. Will this lean out my rich condition at idle abit?
Regards, John.

 

When the engine is fully warmed up is the choke rod coming out of the intake pulling down with significant force? If not, the thermostatic coil or its heat source is the prolem. If that is fine, the correct soultion is to bend either that rod or the rod coming out of the carb in order to make the blade vertical when fully warmed up.

 

1. Yes that is a divorced choke

2. Now I understand about the second position for the choke rod.

3. Depending on temperature, I'd expect the choke to be fully shut when "cold".

4. Often, people screw with the choke coil to open the choke faster/further when the real problem is either a defective heat riser valve or a carbon-plugged crossover in the intake manifold. The manifold by the choke coil should be so hot that it will hardly hurt to touch it--your nerves will be instantly baked. I mean SCREAMING hot! If it isn't, you need to find out why and repair it. Then the choke coil can be adjusted tight enough to close the choke, 'cause there's plenty of heat available to open it.

5. Somewhere along the line, you should verify that both choke pulloffs work, and that they are adjusted properly.

5. PLEASE don't convert to no choke or manual choke. Automatic chokes are so easy to make work properly.

 

Thank you Adam,
I will try to disable the choke system. It will not mess with my vacuum break right, it is a seperate independant system? If that leans me out to where I was before, I will reassemble it, and try to figure out how to repair it.

Nicholas,
How do I tell if I have significant force to pull the rod down? I believe that the rod moves a bit, but not enough anymore. Can you please give me some steps to follow? Also, Which way do I bend what rods? I am sorry I am so thick.

Thanks for checking back Schurkey.
The manifold, like everything else is hot to the touch. On cold start, if I pump the pedal to the floor once, then push it half way and start the car, 7 times out of 10, it will fast idle, and hold. It smells great. When it warms up, a bit, it begins to smell too rich. I pop the pedal, and it idles down fine, but rich. How do I verify that both, (I didn't know I had two) choke pulloffs work? How do I adjust them? I will try to preserve my Automatic chokes. If I cannot do it myself, I will try to find someone near me to help me.

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to help me. It is nice to know, that we are not alone! Have a great holiday!

Regards, John.

 

When fully warmed up take the choke rod coming from the intake out of the carb choke mechanism (the thing with the slot and two holes that say "std' and "alt"). The rod coming out of the intake should want to be lower than the lowest point of travel of the carb's choke mechanism. If it is not, the problem is in the thermostatic coil (under the plate in the intake) or a lack of heat to the choke.

If this checks out, slightly bend open the "loop" in the rod coming out of the intake, to effectively make it longer, until it holds the choke closed when cold.

If you do disconnect the choke, it will not effect the secondary pull off function of the front vacuum break.

 

There are several things to remember regarding the choke blade opening. The first is the heat to the housing, which is vacuum drawn from the exhaust crossover to the housing. Be sure that the vacuum opening is completely open. You could try spraying carb cleaner into the passage while the engine runs, noting that the engine runs rough during that time. If the air cleaner heater is inoperative, staying open, the choke will not open completely, as the air entering the passage must be preheated by the air cleaner. Note also that the housing is completely sealed by the choke cover gasket. You might also check for a binding linkage, either at the choke, or the fast idle linkage. Do not lubricate this linkage. the only maintenance required here is the use of carb cleaner to be assured of a completely clean linkage. Operating the linkage or the choke by hand should also not show any binding of any kind. Check these likely sources of problems before continuing. Ray

 

Are you talking about the choke housing, or the air cleaner housing? It sounds like you're describing an integral hot-air choke and choke coil.

This choke housing needs no vacuum, it's a divorced style. The air cleaner vacuum motor is controlled by a thermo-switch in the air cleaner housing, but it wouldn't affect the choke opening. The vacuum motor operates the air door for the combustion air, so that the air going down the carb venturis is heated to "about" 100 degrees to prevent carb icing.

 

Nicholas,
If I open the loop, it will force the blade to be more closed, when cold? Sould I check that when the motor is hot or cold? I am more concerned with it being open when it is hot and warmed up. Should I pinch the loop smaller when it is warmed up, untill the blade stays open, and straight up and down? Or do I have this whole thing reversed? Should I adjust for both positions with the motor hot, or do I adjust for choke off, (hot) and choke on, cold? Please, just a bit more clarifying, and I should be able to determine what is wrong and what to change to fix it. Thanks.
Regards, John. :TU:

 

Have you checked the total travel of the choke rod between cold and hot? I suspect that your problem is in the thermostatic coil in the intake. If it is not working, you need to raplace it, or just disable the choke. If the coil is not making it's full travel all you can do is make it closed when cold and never all the way open when hot, or vice versa.

 

Thanks Nicholas,
I will check the thermostatic coil. Maybe I will just replace it to be sure.
Regards, John.

 

I was able to adjust it, and now it works. At least it did yesterday. Thanks for all the help.
Regards, John. :TU:

 

The relationshipbetween the air cleaner heat and the choke heat is frequently confused. The air entering the choke housing to heat the choke coil IS heated initially by the air cleaner. The line running from the rear of the carb is the supply for the choke heat. It is initially heated by the air cleaner, where it ultimately runs to the exhaust crossover, then to the choke housing. If the air is not initially heated by the air cleaner, it will be too cold to properly heat the choke coil. Ray

 

The air cleaner is "about" 100 degrees. The choke stove will be several hundred degrees. I suspect--but have not tested--that the initial 100 degree "pre heat" does not make a bit of difference in the air temperature that heats the choke coil in a non-divorced hot air choke, 'cause the amount of heat in the crossover will make the amount of heat in the air cleaner look silly. RAbarret is correct, in a hot-air style choke, it would be normal practice to have the air pre-heated in the air cleaner, but functionally, the air is drawn from that area not because it's pre-heated, but because it's on the clean side of the air filter. It just happens that all the air on the clean side of the filter is also heated to about 100 degrees.

Aside from that, this is NOT a hot-air choke. This is a divorced choke, with the choke coil buried in the manifold well, not hanging off the side of the carb. There is no vacuum pulling heated air across it. Therefore, there is no vacuum hose from the back of the carb to the choke coil. Therefore the pre-heated air cleaner air is a non-issue for starting the engine, or the first little bit that the engine runs after starting.

Pre-heated air could be an issue for keeping the throttle blades from icing as the engine warms up.

 

The integral choke style control appeared at about 1971, or 1972. The divorced style choke was used before that. There are several things to check if that style choke does not completely open, including the operation of the manifold heating system. Called EFE, the closing blade in the exhaust diverts the exhaust across the intake heating this crossover and providing the necessary heat. If this valve is stuck in the open position, or is disconnected, the resulting lack of heat will result in slow opening of the choke, or a partially opening one. I did not notice the year of the vehicle mentioned. Ray