Okay, I have a 1971 Skylark with the 350 and a fresh rebuild to mild performance w/headers and aluminum intake. I need a new Q-jet. There are many companies that will sell me a completely remanufactured one between 150 and 200 bucks. Jet Performance sells their stage 2 for $360 in Summit. Any real advantage for another $200 or just the same rebuilt carb????? Please help
If you get a carb from Jet or Osbourne the extra 150-200 dollars spent will go towards a much better rebuild and a tune set up to your cars specifications. This means it will not be a standard rebuild, but one where jets, airbleeds, metering rods, power piston springs, etc. will all be analyzed and chosen to best suit your engines needs. Either way your car will run alright, but if your looking to have the best economy, driveability, and power with no downsides, spend the money now or spend it later through time and parts by doing it yourself. A reman. carburetor is set up to run on the rich side so it will operate on just about any engine, they arent very specific or exact. In doing so you give up a lot.
Actually, Jacob, you are half right here. The rebuild will merely set the carb up correctly, as it left the factory. They will not enrich anything, just freshen it up. You are correct, however regarding the Stage 2 set up. It will be optimized for the set up in question. Either way, the extra money spent will be wise for anything other than a stock engine. Ray
Thats how a rebuild is done RABarrett true, because a rebuild uses the original components inside the carburetor and merely replaces gaskets, floats, accelerator pumps etc. However he stated that he was looking at buying a "completely remanufactured one between 150 and 200 bucks." In my experience with these carburetors from the parts houses, they do not refurbish parts inside. All reman carbs i have purchased use newly cast and unmarked metering rods made of brass instead of stainless, unmarked newly cast main jets, unmarked newly cast primary rods and power pistons, and all new air bleeds and idle tubes of various sizes that do NOT correspond to the original equipment for that part ## carburetor. Typically main jet sizes are up 2 numbers above original equipment for that part # carb and the primary rods are the same as stock. The secondary rods come with a very thin power tip on all of them ive purchased as well. Basically they do come set up very rich by comparison to a factory carburetor with the same ##s or for a carburetor of the same application that the "reman" is "supposedly" designed for. Ive had bad luck maybe. Looks like everything is made in mexico, poor quality and it will take you a while to tune the air bleeds, jetting, etc to match a rebuilt stock carburetor, especially when none of the metering components are easily identified without use of a micrometer or other fine measuring tools. Hope that clears it up.
I'd call John Osborn and talk to him, he's a good guy and will shoot straight with you. I don't know what he charges for a core to work on, but I sent him a severely warped running Q-jet and he sent me back a carb that I haven't done a thing to and it runs better than ever, and I'd done a lot of tuning on the old one. All for just under $300, iirc. 2 Thumbs up for J.O.
Maybe it is I who stands corrected. When I worked for GM, the idea was to RESTORE the carb's performance. That meant using the original metering components, or replacing the defective ones. That returned the carb to the factory specs. I never created a rich condition unless it was necessary to fix a problem caused by a change to the engine. If these carbs are really not being restored to original condition, these people are doing us a grave injustice. I sincerely hope that that is not the case. If so, maybe there is still a market for me to return to what I enjoy. Tuning these engines to perfection is still my specialty including having purchased an engine analyzer, and teaching my students to use it correctly. My reply was in the hopes that these "rebuilds" were not a travesty. Ray
I need to get a hold of John. Tried a search but nothing comes up. How do we get in touch with him via e-mail or the board because I'm going to need a carb done soon.
Just head over to Smartin's "Buick Parts Directory", and ta-dah! John Osborne Quadrajet Performance Mod and Rebuild Specialist 270-737-4467 JOP455@AOL.COM I highly recommend his work! :TU:
Thanks for all the feedback! Did not mean to spark controversy. ha ha. I was going to buy a Jet Q-jet stage 2 for $369 from Summit, but they only have Chevy side bowl fuel inlets, and I want to maintain a real stock appearance, and not rig it with braided hose. Autozone has a reman for $200, a Tomco reman from Rockauto $200, or Summit sells Holley's reman buick Q-jet for $200, all with front fuel inlet. Just curious if $170 and rigged fuel lines are that much of an advantage. Anyone have experience with the Holley Qjets???
I bought one about 18 years ago, it was the one with the seriously warped airhorn/bowl. I ran it for 17 years, then finally got tired of leaks and sent it to John. I understand your seeking as much information and options as possible, I do the same thing, and did the same thing on my carb. In the end, and after nickel-and-diming myself for a couple of years, I should have gone to John a lot sooner. All that to say that all of the "less expensive" routes will work ok, but the "expensive" route (send it to John O.) works best, and in the long run is actually the less expensive way to go.
I would NOT buy the Jet carb. First off, the side inlet looks wrong, and is just plain ugly. Second, for the same (or less) money you can have one of the Buick carb specialists build the carb specifically for your application. Most, if not all, of the over-the-counter re-manufacturers will consolidate many different applications under one part number. I can say for certain that Holley and Tomco do. For example, they will list the exact same part number for several years of 350 and 455 carbs. A couple of years ago I bought a reman Holley Q-jet. I got lucky and got a 71 455 carb, but what was inside the box with that Holley part number could have been a wide assortment of early 70s Buick carbs. Out the box it had terrible throttle response. I bit the bullet and opened it up, and found the wrong power piston installed. Replaced that and it ran pretty good, but not as good as my John Osborne Q-jet.
That's what I found with my Tomco. No numbers on the rods, and a fairly agressive secondary rod hanger, meaning the holes were drilled in a fairly high location. If these carbs tend to be a little rich, than I'm OK with that. Most people on this board are running modified engines, so a little more fuel shouldn't be a problem (?)
It appears that the Q jet has faced some real competition from these "remanufacturers." I had no idea that these people were desecrating these carbs to this degree. Since they are doing that, I strongly suggest Osborne. My research indicates that he is one of the very few truly aware of how the carb operates, and therefore would not simply 'meter rich.' Though it may not be what I want to hear, I appreciate the openness of the contributors. I am sure that these people do not want to hear these comments, but maybe they need to be more aware of their surroundings. Ray
Ray, there is a universe of difference between the rebuilds done by GM, and the aftermarket commercial rebuilders. Unfortunately, in the aftermarket, carburetors are "grouped" into a pool to produce a unit that, while it may work, it will never work as well as original. The idea is to reduce inventory. Many different carburetors (often some from a different car make!) will be considered as a group. These will then get a "generic" calibration that is richer than any of the individual calibrations (don't want to burn up an engine from running too lean). Additionally, the rebuilder will drill additional vacuum passages in each carb to accomodate any original application now covered by the group. Tubes (as needed) will be pressed into these passages and plugs provided. If the application for which the customer purchases the unit requires a tube, it is there. If not, the customer is expected to use the plug. The only (in my opinion) advantage to these units is a low price. For a stock engine, much better to pay a little more (even a lot more) and have an original unit rebuilt to factory specifications. Then the engine will perform an Buick intended. For a modified engine, much better to pay a little more (or a lot more if necessary), and have a custom carburetor specialist calibrate the unit for the specific application. Jon.
I couldn't agree more. I am just a little surprised that these carbs have taken the turn they have. It is too bad, that like everything else, it is caveat emptor. Ray
I have found the remans, and some kits to be a joke Premium GM parts and a competent technician always do the trick. I rebuild my own, so the competence only goes so far I guess I know what jets, rods, hanger and what I've done to the idle. And most of all, how much torque has been applied to it tightening down everything. I agree, pass on the cheap stuff and go for a custom build. A distributor is the same way. You never know what kind of snockered up timing curve you are getting. I'd rather build my own (or have it custom curved and rebuilt) so I know what its going to do. Nothing sadder than coming up with blowby after a trip somewhere and finding you wrecked the pistons from detonation. :af:
There is no such thing as a carb rebuilt by GM, as GM never rebuilt carbs. If you are referring to a technician at a GM dealer rebuilding a carburetor, then that's something different altogether. Rochester Products Div of GM used to make "service" runs of new carburetors. If I recall correctly (I was an engineering student at RPD back in the early to mid 80's), there were 3 or 4 Quadrajet assembly lines. One of them, at times, was dedicated to making new, service replacement carburetors. There was even a marine line too. You will sometimes run across a "funny" Q-Jet number, and that's the reason why. They were low production runs, and if you recall, it took quite some time to get a new carburetor from a Delco distributor after placing an order. Once enough demand was there, a run was made. I believe that a service replacement carburetor would fit more than one application. Carburetor remanufacturing companies have been butchering carbs for years. Pot luck with them! I too have noticed the quality of QJ jets, rods, hangers, etc have gone down since RPD sold off the carburetor business. The secondary metering rod plating (a nickel-based plating if memory serves) caused a lot of rods to be rejected because the plating would crack during the hanger-end bending process. I was able prove that plating could be done after the bending process and still be able to maintain the very tight tolerance requirements that the calibration process required. I was never able to implement the process because the writing was on the wall for production carbs to RIP. Another little tid-bit about the secondary metering rods hangers that not too many people know about - the reason for the different hangers (denoted by letters) was for different placements of the rod holes. This was not done to richen or lean the secondaries, as every seems to think!! It was done to get the secondary tip in a precise position in the secondary jet. Due to manufacturing tolerances, each carb was a little different. In one of the last stations on the assembly line, a worker would insert a gauge into the secondary jets and take a measurement from the jets to a point somewhere on the airhorn (I forget where), and depending what that measurement was dictated what hanger that particuliar carb got. 15 Q-Jets of the same number can have 15 different hangers. It is reasons like this that a carb can never be put back to the way the factory designed it, but we can still make them work.
Can't you also take any secondary rod hanger and bend the arms to get whatever height you want? I've never understood all the excitement over "I found an "X" hanger!"...
