I have been having trouble with some spark plug wires I purchased from CARS - manufactured by Lectric Limited. Any help would be appreciated. My '65 Wildcat 401 will not run with these wires. They are the repros. It seems the key is related to the resistance of the wires. The car runs fine with an aftermarket set of Autolites. The Autolites ohm out at 7000. The carbon core repos ohm out at 14,000. If I put 5 of the repro wires on the car, it starts and runs very rough. It appears to be running on the 3 cylinders with the Autolites. If I rev it up I can get a timing light to fire on all 5 repro wires. However, once I have all 8 wires on the car, there is no way to get it to run. I replaced the coil with a brand new ACDelco and the plugs with NOS AC 44S. If someone has a set of NOS or Lectric Limited repros let me know what yours ohm out at. I can't find any specifications in the shop manual on what the resistance should be. CARS has been no help. Wires are not returnable since they are electrical parts. Don't ever expect CARS to stand behind a part. They just sell them. They don't service them. I have other stories but will save them for another time.
I am not sure one can completely spec out spark plug wires just in terms of resistance with a direct current measuring device like an ohm meter. Since the voltage is transient, it would be the impedance of the wires that counts which also takes into consideration its inductance and capacitance. In other words the load on the circuit, looking from a transient voltage source or what EEs call the Thevonin equivalent, is determined by all three resistance , capacitance, and inductance. I do agree that if all wires ohm out the same that is some indicia that one wire is not defective.
Normal resistance for ignition wires is usually between 5-8k ohms/wire. See if the spark will jump a 1/4 inch gap from the end of the wire to ground, do the same for the coil wire. You may just have too weak of a spark to make its way through the wire. It might be a good idea to check the connection at the points, if it's a bad connection or corroded it'll wreak havoc with the ignition system. I've also noticed that aftermarket point sets that I've purchased recently are not of the same quality I used to get. Verify your dwell angle and make sure your rotor isn't cracked or burned through, allowing some of the spark discharge to jump directly to ground at the distributor shaft.
Thanks I'll check under that cap and see what's going on. Man this has been a frustrating easy fix. The things I do for love ... of Buicks.
The plot thickens OK so here's the latest on my problem. Any help would be appreciated. I put a new cap and Rotor on the car tonight. I don't have the equipment to do points. I cranked the car on and off for about 60 seconds. Nothing. I had my wife come out and crank it while I had a timing light on #2, #4, #6 and #8 plug wires respectively. No indication of spark. I then pulled #2 wire off and grounded to the power steering pump. The spark jumped a 1/4" or so gap and the engine sputtered once. I then pulled #3 wire and grounded to the exhaust manifold. The spark jumped the 1/4 gap again and she sputtered. I then sent my beautiful wife inside and proceeded to crank it with all wires connected. More sputtering. By now it was somewhat flooded. Eventually the car started and ran very rough. After 2 minutes or so I got out to try the timing light again. Of course it dies. Then no hint on restart. Nothing. Dead as hell. If thinking that when I put the higher resistance wires on the car the spark is finding an easier path to ground. But where? Maybe something in the distributer? Let me know if you have any ideas. I'll be trying more on Saturday including new points. Thanks!
Watching with interest! I have a set of these waiting for the Super Wildcat convertible. Its in Springfield Il, so testing may be a while.
Thanks Ted I hope yours go better than mine Ted. The repro wires are a carbon core and therefore (I think) harder to fire through. I am beginning to think that the spark is finding an easier path to ground and is not making it out of the distributor. Like I said, I'll have help to do the points this weekend. Maybe that will help. Wish I had a 425 dual quad... If I come to Ohio will you let me drool on it? Oh well. I've gotta dance with the one I brung. It's not too bad.
ANY good quality magnetic suppression, spiral or "magna" core wire will be what you want to use. The correct ohm's reading on a well made wire should be 1,000 ohms per foot of wire run, i.e., a foot of wire, 1,000 ohms max, 7 feet of wire, 7,000 ohms, unless the wires are the new MSD Super Conductors, they have roughly 70 ohms per foot. Wires to avoid, Jacobs junkers, PerTronix, Split-Fire (all kinds), and any and all steel and/or copper stranded wire. I have a set of every day, mundane Borg-Warner Select wires on my daily flogger V6 S10, had a miss in cylinder 6, thought it was one of those 10 year old wires, so I ohm'd all of 'em. Wires were all OK, same spec as I put 'em on, found EGR valve, which resides over munber 6 cylinder's intake runner, locked partially open, causing miss. Same 14 year old wires will go through yet another California smog debacle within the next month, still no missing. B-W Select are magnetic suppression, spiral core wires. My Dodge van needed a set of wires years ago, we had the speed shop in Merced, and had inherited a bunch of Junkobs wire sets when we bought the store, so...I installed a set, lost 3 cylinders right off the bat. We had to warrantee sooooo many of those wires for customers before we ditched Junkmisfireobs wires, it wasn't even funny. We had to steal replacment wires from other kits we had in stock because Jerkobs wouldn't own up to the issues with their trash, and wouldn't warrantee their failed products.
I'm concerned about your points. That'll affect how it runs. You have to set them with a dwell meter, the gap distance of 0.016 in is too fickle to set and get it right. The dwell angle affects timing, so you set dwell first, then do timing. I'd bet anything that IgnitionMan Dave know tons of stuff about points, if you must continue to run them.
My first thought was points... Find a way to check them.....buy the $50 Sears multimeter - best money I ever spent.
I had three nail head guys over to the house today. The short answer is these plug wires are junk. We did everything short of putting in a new distributor. Points, condensor, cap, rotor, coil. Nothing helped other than to switch the set out with a 30 year old set of Essex wires that have the correct boots. The engine runs fine with the Essex wires, just as it did with the (ugly) Autolites. I'll be calling Jeff at CARS on Monday just to see if they will do anything about it. But as hard as they fought to stick me with these junk wires the first time I suspect I'm stuck with them. Lesson learned. If a product can be bought from a company with a satisfaction guaranteed or your money back policy - buy them there. CARS has a you bought it you own it policy. These wires are available from Year One. If I had bought them there I would not have had to go through this 4 months of hell. Thanks to those on the board for you help and ideas. Thanks to Kevin, Dan and Ed who helped me today. A big thumbs down for CARS and 'Lectric Limited. Bad product. Bad service. I'll shop elsewhere if I can in the future.
Are these the Date Coded wires they sell? Looks like that is the only thing in the catalog. How dissapointing.
Those are the ones Ted. In fairness I have a friend who has a set in a '65 Riv GS. No issues. I'm more disappointed in the service and the way CARS treated me than I am the product. Anyone can sell a defective product. But the good sellers will work through a replacement.
Update Well I found the problem but I want to discuss it with Lectric Limited and get CARS reaction before I post it here. Look for the answer in a day or two.
Bob, In tune up school the rule of thumb was 2,000 ohms per foot. Anything more than that makes the wires more suscepible to crossfiring and arcing. Sounds to me like a coil output problem. It's not making enough voltage. The wider your plug gap is, the more voltage required to jump the gap. For example, you could install a 50,000 volt supercoil in it. If it requires 10,000 volts to go down the wire and make a spark, that's all the coil will have to make in order to fire that cylinder. Widen the gap, it might take 20,000 volts. If your coil only makes 15,000 it does not have enough reserve capacity. That's why years ago you used a scope to check this, it displayed the firing voltage for each cylinder. Set your points to 28 with a dwell meter. They will go up over 30 when you speed up the motor. Also check for worn dist. bushings. That will cause a large variation in dwell readings. Dwell is point gap. Worn bushings will cause backfiring and make the car run like crap. What I'm getting at is, low firing voltage is also caused by high primary resistance. Put a voltmeter on the coil + with the engine running. It should not be less than 9 volts. (- side to the engine block.) Try another coil, maybe it's no good. Hope I have helped.:Smarty:
Bob, Just another thought...... I'm having a hard time getting past this part... "I then pulled #2 wire off and grounded to the power steering pump. The spark jumped a 1/4" or so gap and the engine sputtered once. I then pulled #3 wire and grounded to the exhaust manifold. The spark jumped the 1/4 gap again and she sputtered." and "By now it was somewhat flooded. Eventually the car started and ran very rough." Seems to me if you have a 'hot' spark (1/4") under those conditions, there's a good chance the plugs could be fuel-fouled. Maybe I missed it, but have you already checked to see if they are looking like black velvet? Keep on diggin'........
Just wait a day or two Guys I have the solution. I know what's wrong. I just want to wait until I tell Lectric Limited and CARS to post it here. It'll knock your sock off!:grin:
The problem with the wires is... OK, so I have talked to both Lectric Limited and CARS and we now know the source of the problem with the spark plug wires. If you remember, I cannot get my '65 Wildcat 401 to run with a set of reproduction spark plug wires purchased from CARS manufactured by Lectric Limited. The problem is in the spark plug boots. According to Greg at Lectric Limited, they buy the spark plug boots from CARS. Some time in 2003, the boots were changed slightly when CARS went to a different manufacturer. Lectric Limited had one other complaint from a customer who told them that the wires were actually allowing the spark to arch to the block through the spark plug boot. This other customer was able to correct the problem only when they replaced the defective CARS boots with NOS Buick boots. In my case we confirmed the boots were the problem by Greg at Lectric Limited replacing the CARS boots with some known electrically sound boots. I placed the wires, with everything the same except the boots, on the car yesterday and it starts and runs fin now. So the issue I was having was the same. The spark arches through the boots to the block and the car will not run. Lectric Limited has been very nice to work with in diagnosing this problem. Jeff at CARS has been informed that they are the cause of the problem (since they sell the boots to Lectric Limited) and has taken their normal stance of "we'll have to get back to you". "This could take a while for us to work out with the manufacturer etc". And at this point in time Jeff will only commit to taking to Glen about the problem and getting back to me by the end of this week with their solution. I have requested a full refund of my purchase price. My advice to anyone else would be to not buy any spark plug wires for mid sixties Buicks until CARS gets this manufacturing issue addressed. They are defective and as of this writing have yet to stand behind their product.
Carbon core wires? These are carbon core wires right? Back then, they were famous for breaking continuity in the carbon core when they were streched or kinked or sat bent in a box for a long time. My dad and I replaced several carbon wire sets new out of the box because the carbon was not continuous when bent to install. They might ohm just fine when bent back to how they came out of the box, but resistance went sky high when installed. I understand the boot problem-you should be able to see that in the dark at night-nice bright arc light each fire, maybe even hear them snaping, but only if you have good power to the plug connector. (I had a bad boot on the distributor recently- found it when I set my hand on the distributor cap!) How about the wire looms? are they insolated well? Direct ground if they are not.
