I'm in. :TU: Keep in mind these "grass roots" rules will have to be enforced as written.... otherwise history will repeat.
I'm new here, so hello to all. In the past, I just lurked and read what threads I found interesting or entertaining on this site. This thread made me join and express my thoughts. Dan and Bob - I truly appreciate you putting on what others have said and I agree with...the event IS the best musclecar weekend on the planet. Bar none. I first attended in 1999. (the cars were barely breaking into the 12's back then, ahem.) I was a concours restored show car guy back then, but got bored with the monotony of shows. A pure stock racer friend kidded me that I was a member of the "feather duster" crowd. So, in late 2004, I bought a car to race in the PSMCDR. I raced it in 2005 and had a terrific time, but wasn't impressed with the car, so over the winter my friends and I took the entire car apart and re-restored it to numbers and date matching concours condition (minus the exhaust system) to race in the PSCMDR. I didn't want to be "top dog", I just wanted to participate, be somewhat competitive, and have fun. In 2006 with the quest to go faster, I deviated from the stock exhaust set-up to a X pipe. This really bothered my conscience that the car was no longer "pure stock". It was now hot-rodded to "near stock". Well, the previous owner of the car came calling and wanted the car back, so I sold it in 2009. I have returned to the event as a spectator, with the desire to once again become a future participant when I find another "ride". I must say that in the last two years I have joked to my friends that the event is in reality the "NEAR Stock Musclecar Drag Race" because of the rule bending, NHRA allowances, etc. Remember, NHRA stands for National HOT ROD Association. While all musclecars are factory-produced hot rods, they were still built by a company, and are not home-built hot rods per se, which is what many of the cars have become. For the event to move forward and continue to use its name as the "PURE Stock Musclecar Drag Race", the cars should be as equipped from the factory. That in my mind means factory compression, factory valve springs, factory exhaust, etc. Now this is gonna get some guys fuming. I say too bad, stop whining. Car didn't come with 11:1 compression? Don't bring it - go to a NHRA event and race. Car didn't come with an H or X pipe exhaust? Don't run it. Car came with a 2" exhaust? You gotta run with it. So you're just gonna run slower, but I can almost guarantee your still gonna have fun. And that's what the event is all about, right? This is easy for me, as I am not a hardcore brand loyalist, or hardcore competitor. I just love all musclecars...Fords, Buicks, Mopars, Studes, AMCs, Chevys, on and on. I think 80% of the participants love and respect all of the variety of cars at the event. Gorgeous cool cars doing what they were built for. What's NOT to love about this? If you start trying to give and take rule allowances for some brands to keep all the cars tightly competitive, you have a nightmare called NASCAR, and it's no longer grass roots and fun. I vote for continuing the event, if it returns to the original concept of "pure stock". Anything else, is F.A.S.T. or NHRA, or "Near-stock." John Hlivko
I am in also .. Grassroots sounds good !! And food for thought a preselected unbiased rules/arbitration commitee might be a way of keeping any pressure off the individules running the Race. And we all agree the arbritators decision is final when we sign the sheet to race. Paul
Dan Thank you for chiming in with your feedback. You and Bob have legions of support for both of you and the wonderful event you both created. Do what you have to do to make this event work for you and Bob. I for one, will support and participate in the direction you feel this event needs to go.
Now that the cat's out of the bag, this will be a hard pill to swallow for a majority of the faithful, but I think it's the right thing to do. And I've been thinkin' this for the last few years after seeing how much rule-bending was going on. And with a potential 2.0 version of PSMCD coming down the pike, now's the time to do it. No Pertronix ignitions and other little invisible do-dads. .060 overbores max (not everyone can find virgin blocks) and EVERYTHING else is stone-stock as it can possibly be!* *If I was running the show, I would say it'd be okay to keep the 2.5" exhaust, just no Xs or Hs and turbo-style (no welded) mufflers only. It just makes me wince to think of 400+ cubic inches trying to breath through kink-bent 1-7/8" exhaust.
I'm in. Why wait 'til 2011. Do it now. o No: Bob and Dan, thanks for your unquestionable class in giving us the PSMCDR. :TU:
To expand on what Ted Harbit had to say about legality of cars. It would be a huge undertaking to inspect the engine of every car. My suggestion is that at the conclusion of qualifying on Friday, put the top 25 qualifiers in a hat (or even all the cars), randomly pull out 10 for a mandatory valve cover pull to check the camshaft, and a P&G. If a car doesn't pass or refuses, then they will forfeit the best of three shootout on Saturday. This would make the participants think twice about bringing something that is beyond the rules.
I'm in. I feel very much like McFord. I have been attending since 2003 and racing since 2006. The PSMCDR is an annual event I don't want to miss.
ditto, same since half of our driveshaft went its merry way in the traps the first year. 1999. Hope we can still participate if only for a non competitive basis, as I don't have a lot of extra money around to get back to the pure, as built rules...wouldn't take much (Pertroniks, wheels, driveshaft loop, extra heavy duty driveshaft) but there's easily $500 there...Steep admission price. How about a time trial classification for the t n t day (on Friday) participate in the social and comraderie, and park it on elimination day? I've enjoyed watching the races the last coupla years when I wasn't racing my car. Never see much racing if you're participating.. I like both... I think there's a lot of people in that boat, especially in Michigan right now..
This person needs his man card taken away. Hopefully with this coming to light he will be embarrased enough not to bother coming again or be man enough to apologize to Dan and Bob.
Are there any people who are not having fun with the current rules? It does not look like it to me.I realize some have bent,or broken the rules,but who is kidding who? Everybody knows whats up.The fastest cars at the race are mostly certified,what does that mean? I am not going to lie,i have built my cars to nhra compression,which gave me specific numbers to build by.Yes,I realize that nhra built cars perform better than they did off the showroom,but so what.I like the fact that they run better,and cant imagine myself spending thousands of dollars,to go slower. Back a few years ago,it was alot easier to make extra money,which also made it easier to invest in your car.Things are alot different now,dumping 100,s of dollars into these cars is alot more difficult,and i dont want to do it,if i dont have to.Look at the times of the cars that run.I think there are more than a few SPEC motors. Are all these guys willing to rebuild motors,buy different castings because they were milled too much? I doubt it. I cant,and wont. I enjoy the race for its well thought out format,casual atmosphere,great organizers,and a really good bunch of guys. Theres no prizes,not really even great magazine coverage,and no trophys. Why the fuss? I think everybody should be able to pull a valve cover,and p&g, pass the compression test, and a cam lift test. I would reserve this for the fastest of each brand,as most of the guys just want to have fun. As far as Dan and Bob getting sued,that is absurd,and i feel bad that these fine gentleman would have to put up with that. Racing is racing,boys. Cars will get faster. It happens in every motorsport there is. Could it be time to have more classes? Pure Stock,nhra stock,and why not Fast also. It would make for one hell of a good week end. Just a thought. If none of my cars fit in with the program,i would be more than happy to help with tech.
I'm curious to hear more about what Bob and Dan have in mind. :beers2: I would agree with Dave that right now is not a good time to spend a lot of money reversing things that have been allowed for years. And lets be honest, an X pipe isn't gonna turn a 14 sec. car into a 12 sec. car.:TU:
One suggestion for admission to the PSMCDR is by simply asking for applications to attend the event. Handle it like the Autorama where you have to APPLY to be allowed into the show. Same thing with PSMCDR. Make evryone APPLY to enter. Those that do NOT meet the criteria of the organizers do not get allowed in. Dear Sir/Madam, We thank you for your interest in the PSMCDR event for 2011. However, your vehicle does not meet the criteria required to particpate in our event. We hope that does not discourage you from trying again next year. Please find enclosed the refund of your entry fee. Sincerely, The PSMCDR OWNERS/ORGANIZERS It is THEIR event, not ours. We are allowed the priviledge of participating, not entitled to it.
I have always loved the pure stock drags, I was especially hooked after I was envited to the Big Block shoot out at Milan dragway. For 13 years IT has been eat, sleep and breath the race. I have brought friends to it ,my wife to it- the race is contagious and I thank you for that last 13 years Bob and Dan. I have seen the direction the race has gone the last few years and Offered my opinion more than once uzzled: o No: And I have been frustrated by the flip flop stuff. But please don't jump to chopp this race up too much. The rules are good rules if you just enforce them and CLUB the fools that like to use the word Gray area It's your race do as you will, but with folks talking of losing exhaust,pertronix,compression,-Ouch- I drive the heck out of my cars. Lets see $1200 for new 291 heads that aren't milled, $500 to redo with new guides, seats and valve job. $1000 for the brand new Stainless exhaust that I just put on this winter. Throw a $125 ignition in the trash and adjust points every couple weeks (due to abuse of course :Brow: ) By the time I change 4 cars (wifes-chevelle-Z28-AMX) that adds up fast for a guy that followed the rules . It's your race do as you wish, I just ask to be gental- It's still tender from the news :eek2: :moonu: haha little joke at the end -couldn't resist. Just to add on thing-to end BS. Like when I talked to Bob, You sign your life away when you enter the track. Just have everyone sign a paper when you enter saying you understand the rules -agree to follow- and understand the consequences. AND if your busted not following . GOODBYE you signed and have NO Right to stupid ideas of recourse.
I like Frank's idea. From what I took for Dan Jensen's post maybe they still want to see this continue but..... but what way?? He mentioned a "grassroots version" which is ?? Maybe for this years race ,since so many have some sort of opinion on how Dan and Bob's rules and race should be run, have a survey of some sort with this years sign up and see what ideas ALL the racers have. Not sure if this has been done,but if not,what could it hurt at this point. Can't hurt really but maybe it could help. Dan and Bob could go through these and see what are on the minds of the ones that ACTUALLY show up to race and who WANT to see this race continue. They might be surprised on what most think!! PLEASE guys don't give up on this race. I have only run 3 out of the last 4 years but it would be a shame if you decide to really end this race. It is by far and away thee event of the year!!! Just a thought.
Say it isn't so. I had to check my calander to be sure it wasn't April 1st! It bears repeating...thanks to Bob and Dan and all of the others who have poured their sweat into this event. It is unfortunately true that some of the magic that attracted us to this event has been lost. Pure Stock is/was an event where we could bring our stock to the bone 69 H/O loaded (heavy!) A/C car and run 14 second ET's all day long and feel no shame because "that's what they ran off the assembly line". Unbelievable awesome fun! Through the years, the field has passed us by while I felt honored to abide by the REAL rules, and have had fun the whole way. These rules cannot be found in a book or spec sheet. It's just so damn simple, stock means stock. It's a pretty simple process to follow. Here's your rulebook. If (insert your car make here) didn't do it to the car before it hit the dealer lot, it's not pure stock. Now, in a quest to go faster, many have built their rides to the NHRA specs that Bob and Dan have allowed in their effort to provide documented specs. Can't blame anyone for this as speed is awesome! Unfortunately, it's too late to close the barn door now, the horses are all out! I am for a grassroots "P U R E S T O C K" event. Get it? STOCK, no rules or enforcement needed. Drive your car to the track, race it hard, drive it home. No whining allowed. That being said, another class or event might be needed for the "Near Stock" NHRA spec'd cars. I'd hate to see those folks left by the wayside. Too many great folks with lots of time and money invested in their cars here. I hope we can continue in some form as this has been one of the highlights of our calendar every year. Looking forward to hopefully seeing y'all in Martin over a few (dozen....cases) of icy beverages.:beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer Paul
Thank you Bob and Dan! Seems to be way too much ego involved in are sport/hobby, if you think there are no cheaters in stock/SS etc guess again. I hope you guys have a change in heart. If you catch someone cheating expose the ring pieces for what they are and band them. Chris
hi i've been watching this discusion develop over the last several days and decided it was time to add my two cents worth. having competed in 10 of the last 12 psmcdr events, i connot think of one event that wasn,t fun.
hi. iv'e watched this discussion evolve the last few days and decided it was time to chime in. having participated in 10 of the last 12 events and always being the slowest ls6 on the premises i feel a unique perspective. every year is more fun than the last,and my concern is too many have lost sight of that fact. it is up to the event organizers (dan & bob) to be the police force not the competitors. my hope is that the event will continue in it's present form and remain fun for everybody involved. look forward to seeing everyone in sept.:bla:
