This AC is NOT COLD!!

Discussion in 'The Big Chill' started by 71skylark3504v, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    I am extremely frustrated with this AC. I switched to Duracool and replaced the expansion valve and drier. I get 50* air when its on low and 60* when its on high. What gives??! My low side pressure is about 30 when above idle and the high side stays greater than 200. I really don't want to have to pay someone to convert this thing to R134.
     
  2. evil16v

    evil16v Midwest Buick Mafia

    I have used that "type of refridrerant before and have had simular results.

    the better options are r12 (getting easier to get again... most of the r 12 cars are off the road now -- no demand --price comes down) OR 134. and It works in these systems.


    These guys have an awesome website LOOK HERE >>> http://www.buickperformance.com/ac.htm

    These guys made it work. check it out
     
  3. Mister T

    Mister T Just truckin' around

    That is owned by George Nenadovich, known as "GStage1", here on V8. Lots of great info there.:TU:
     
  4. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    Other people have gotten Duracool to work, quite well actually. Is my POA bad? What if I got one of those POA replacement valves that converts it to a cycling clutch system?
     
  5. Jim Cannon

    Jim Cannon Loves that Dynaflow hum!

    I think low side pressure of 30 is not low enough. I'm not familiar with Duracool. I use R-12 in my old car and I shoot for about 22 psi on the low side.
     
  6. 70aqua_custom

    70aqua_custom Well-Known Member

    The POA might be bad. Here's how to check it POA Valve Test

    Your 1971 clutch was not designed to cycle. Yes it would work but I wouldn't do it.
     
  7. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    I forgot to mention the low side shoots way up >30 when I add more freon. Sounds like POA:af:
     
  8. Joe65SkylarkGS

    Joe65SkylarkGS 462 ina 65 Lark / GN

    2 words. R 12.


    I got lucky, my local automotive heat and ac guy was telling me the other day when I was in there tunning up my girls ac, that he stumbled onto a 20 lb can of R 12 at a garage sale for $30.00!!! I'll be bringing my 65 there for a charge!!:Brow:
     
  9. Joe65SkylarkGS

    Joe65SkylarkGS 462 ina 65 Lark / GN

    Is duracool supposed to be a R 12 replacement?
     
  10. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    Yes, it is a drop in replacement for R12 with more desirable chemical properties. Do a search on the board. There are tons of posts on it.
     
  11. lsrx101

    lsrx101 Well-Known Member

    Nailheadina67 is a big fan of Duracool. Maybe he will chime in with some helpful info. It works very well for him, he's the Duracool master.

    There are some things to consider about Duracool, so you need to look somewhere other than the manufacturers website and make an informed decision. Some things to think about:
    -Duracool contains iso-butane. It is flammable. Just "how" flammable is heavily debated. In my own, non-scientific testing, it supports combustion very well.
    -Duracool is not approved for use in an MVAC system in the US, so it is basically illegal to use in a car. The Refrigerant Police aren't gonna lock you up if you use it, but you should keep it in mind.
    -Using Duracool will void any warranty on AC parts. No manufacturer or rebuilder will warranty a part used with it.
    -If you ever need the system serviced at a shop, no one will touch it.
    -There have been a few cases of insurance companies denying accident claims due to having HC refrigerants in the AC system (Technically operating a vehicle in an illegal manner). I've seen only 2 verified cases of this, but ya never know.
    All of this applies to HC based refrigerants in general, not just DC.

    Due to the large drop in the price of R12 and the availability of other proven refrigerants, there's really no "good" reason to use an HC refrigerant IMHO. It made much more sense back in the late 90s when R12 was through the roof and the real world procedures of R134a conversion were virtually unknown, but today HCs are a non issue unless you just want to be "different".
     
  12. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    HC is cheaper and more convenient to buy than R12, and it's chemical properties are 10 times better than R12, or R134. It doesn't require all the conversion bullshit that R134 requires. I'm not just trying to be different, I am just being SMART! :bla:I didn't open this thread to discuss the different refrigerants because it's been done many times.
    http://www.foxtoolsupply.com/hc12vs.htm

    UPDATE: I bought a NOS POA off ebay. Will try it out when it arrives with more DURACOOL!!:beer
     
  13. mr45555

    mr45555 Well-Known Member

    The downside of Duracool is that it is flamable!!!!!!!!
     
  14. lsrx101

    lsrx101 Well-Known Member


    :laugh:...:bla: back at ya.

    Here's a testing proceedure for the POA valve if you're curious. http://tinyurl.com/ys6fvd

    Not trying to start a war, just making sure Joe65SkylarkGS also knows the "cons. Many folks will hear the words "drop in replacement" and just go on that. It's not that simple. Propane and ammonia are 2 excellent refrigerants too, but...
    Have one on me...:beer
     
  15. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    LOL, I love this argument, because it freaks people out for NO reason. When duracool (propane, or whatever it is) is in an AC system is there any air (oxygen) in that system too. The answer is a TINY amount. Like they teach in high school chemistry you need a proportionate amount of oxygen for propane to burn. If the correct amount of oxygen is not present DURACOOL is harmless!!! And completely nonreactive. R134 and R12 ARE ALSO flammable and even explosive in certain circumstances. How about that gasoline you add to your tank? OMG Don't use it it's flammable!!!:laugh:
     
  16. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    Thanks:TU:
     
  17. Jim Cannon

    Jim Cannon Loves that Dynaflow hum!

    No, it sounds to me like it is over charged.

    Not being familiar with Duracool, I did not know that it was a HC refrigerant. You need much less of it than R12 for the same cooling capacity. It is counter-intuitive, I know, but try taking some Duracool OUT and see if that does not improve things.

    Do you have any idea how much you put in? I think you will find a guide on the web that tells you how many oz. of Duracool to use for each original oz. of R12. It is less than 1. (It is about 0.5, as I recall.) YMMV.


    Jim
     
  18. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    Yes, I charged it with 3 1/4 cans of HC which is equivalent to ~ 3 1/4 pounds of R12, THEN had to let a bunch out due to the low side pressure being so high. Sight glass is extremely foamy too.
     
  19. nailheadina67

    nailheadina67 Official Nailheader

    I've been avoiding forums lately b/c I'm sick of all the arguing and sending of insults back and forth. However, since I received a PM from a member asking for my .02 here, as a fellow Buick brother I will try to help. :)



    So are farts....so does that mean we should no longer go to taco bell? LOL (had to inject some humor here) :pp The kinetic energy between the two is about the same, with the fart possibly being more explosive. :laugh:

    Seriously though.......it sounds to me like perhaps the valve in your heater hose may be stuck open, causing hot coolant to still enter the heater core with the a/c on. That will cause the discharge air in the cabin to be too warm. Also, be certain your cable that controls the temperature is properly adjusted, so that the door gets closed completely when you have the temp set all the way down.

    A new POA might not be a bad idea also, but it appears to me yours is working. 28 psi is ideal, but you may only get that reading when the system is not warmed up yet. Remember, evaporator pressure is directly related to the temperature of the discharge air. So if yours is 30 psi, it should blow cold. Anything less than 28 with r-12 or duracool would cause the condensation on the evaporator to freeze up and turn it into a giant ice cube. When my POA went bad, on warm days it made farting sounds each time I came to a stop. (no relation to taco bell). :Dou:

    As for the foaming, DURACOOL WILL NORMALLY FOAM BY NATURE, even though the system is fully charged. So just ignore the foaming, but be certain you have the correct amount of refrigerant in there. It may not hurt to charge it a few ounces short, that actually may cause it to blow slightly cooler on a warm day but on very hot days a slightly low charge may reduce the cooling capacity of your system.

    As for the guys who say to go to r-12.......you are entitled to your opinion....but why would you want to do that? Duracool is non-corrosive and actually cools slightly better that r-12 and is cheaper. It also requires no calibration changes and mixes with any kind of oil in the system. 134 also makes higher pressure and that stresses the system more. Sounds like a no brainer to me what the better choice is.

    Keep in mind there is major $$$$$ in the a/c biz, and 134 is just a good reason to sell you more crap you really don't need and keep our freindly u.s. gov't happy. The big chemical companies want you to use that snake oil b/c it makes them richer. It's OK in a system designed for it, it works great in cycling systems, but my opinion is that it is garbage in older cars.

    Sure, you could convert your system to cycle with a compressor not designed to do so, but with a mild cam and fixed idle speed adjustment I would think it would be really annoying with that thing cycling all the time on warm (not hot) days. Besides, on really hot days cycling systems can run steady anyhow.

    Getting back to your problem......one other thing that could also cause it not to blow cold enough, particularly if your high side pressure is too high, like maybe over 250? (this depends on how hot the outside temperature is)......perhaps the airflow over the condenser is too little. It could also be b/c the condenser is old and can no longer efficiently transfer heat. Like a bad radiator can do when it gets old. Or possibly a bad fan clutch or missing shroud. Bugs in the fins will also reduce condenser efficiency.

    I've never tried this, but I have been told you can shut the engine off, then cool down the condenser with cold water, (spray it with a water hose) and then start it back up and see if the pressure goes down. If in doubt, it's expensive, but after checking everything else you may want to try a new condenser as a last possibility.

    Good luck, I hope my advice has helped you. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2008
  20. BUICKRAT

    BUICKRAT Torque Rules!

    Is your fan shroud installed correctly and is the fan clutch good? I personally would not reccommend any hc refrigerants because if the system does spring a leak under the hood and one of your plug wires arcs, there is the potential for an explosion. I know the chances of this are somewhat remote, but I prefer to err on the side of caution. Keep in mind that the older systems were prone to leakage.
     

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