What happens without wavey clutch plates? My rebuild kit (TCI race kit) doesnt have wavey steels, instead it just has 3 thicker steels. Its put together except the drum on the output shaft and the oil pump. thanks
Steven, The wavy steel plates were there to help soften the application of the clutch. You should feel firmer shifts without them. Dave
ok so it makes sense that the race kit comes with those plates for firmer/quicker shifts, and a bonus that the shift kit (one i picked because it didnt have any drill included, i didnt want to modify it to that extent) describes tire blazing race shifts :Brow: That takes the worry out. Thanks
Be aware that leaving the cushion plates out isn't always a great idea. The forward cushion plate softens the apply when you go from neutral to any forward gear. This is not a shifting clutch, so having a wave plate in there isn't detrimental. I only leave the forward wavy plate out on all out racing applications. The direct cushion prevents harsh engagement into reverse. While you may not have firm shifts now, that will be solved by installing a valve body kit. No need to re-engineer the clutch packs if this is a street car. Leave the wave plates in for reliability. If it's a full on strip ride, leave them out. If it's a street strip ride, leave the direct cushion plate out. If it's a mostly street ride, leave both in. If it's a TH350 be SURE you keep the intermediate cushion plate in.
its already almost completely together, only the forward clutch hub needs to be put in. even though its street/strip, ill just put in the plates that came with the rebuilt kit, because theyre higher quality of material. thanks
What makes them of higher quality? Did the clearances on clutch packs come out within spec without the wave plates?
I'll second that.......I left my wavy plates out, and I'm reminded each time I put her into reverse! :af:
TH400's are known for harsh reverse engagement, even with the cushion plates. Many builders install 2 cushion plates in the directs to help this and TransGo makes a shift kit specifically to address this problem. The low/reverse band also affects this and adjusting the band clearances, as well as the direct clutch clearances can help prevent harsh engagment. Reverse pressures are higher and that is why you get a harder shift into reverse. The rear band and the direct clutch must apply, and the order that they apply has an effect on how hard it shifts into reverse, this is why we have to pay attention to the clearances. The first thing we do when we build a performance transmission is increase line pressure, increase orifice sizing, and delete checkballs that control the rate of apply or exhaust. All of these things make it shift harder, but may have unintended side effects. The higher idle speeds of a more radically cammed engine add to the effect.
How do you know they are of a higher quality steel? Usually cushion plates are not as thick, so clutch pack clearances will change when using flat vs. cushion plates. I don't use cushions in the directs on my more serious units simply because upon initial apply, there isn't as much area mating to the friction and there is more heat on the high spots that do mate with the frictions. You will see heat checking on the high spots if it is a cushion plate directly applying to a friction. By higher end units, I mean those with over 600 HP/TQ. However at lesser HP levels with proper calibration the cushion plates will help the overall reliability of the transmission as well as the satisfaction experienced by the owner. I'm going to take a guess that you are assuming the steels in your kit are higher quality than the OEM steels, that you don't rebuild transmissions often, and you WANT very hard shifts so in your mind the cushion plates will possibly prevent the "tire-chirping" shifts. Automatic transmission steels are only manufactured by a handful of companies. Allomatic, Raybestos, and Alto are the common ones. No matter who you get your kit from, it will have steels from one of these three companies, and more than likely from the first two mentioned. Alto makes a "Kolene" steel, which I would guess is bought in bulk from the other companies and then nitrided, and resold under the Alto name. The OEM's use the same suppliers.
the engine will have near or above 700 hp. Clutches and steels are from alto, Red Eagle Series. They are black, so im assuming theyre nitride coated. I wouldnt mind not having tire chirping shifts, every so often at the local track we see a car with hard shifts go sideways because of the shift strength.
The black Alto plates are "Kolene" steels. I don't use them but if you do so you need to smooth them with some scotchbrite and solvent wash them. The red clutches work fine but I only use them in the direct pack on a TH400 and then only on 600+HP applications although the OEM smooth tan Borg Warner frictions are good to 1000+ HP. I would leave the direct cushion plate out on your application and try to use a 6 clutch direct setup. The forward cushion would be a matter of choice on your deal. The cushion plates have little noticeable affect on the actual shift firmness at WOT.
i cleaned them before i put them in, then coated them with atf, but didnt do anything else. the rearmost 2 sets are in, the front is all thats left. what does the smoothing do? thanks
The coating leaves a rough finish to the plates that will tear up the new frictions. This is one reason I don't use them or recommend them in a GM 3 speed, they aren't necessary, they add extra expense, and they require additional prep time just to make them work. The stock steel plates in a Th400 are good to 1000+ HP, I know this because I've used them to 1400+ HP in monster truck applications. The Kolenes are a gimmick IMO. What is going to fail from heat faster, A stock steel plate of proper thickness, or a paper lined friction clutch?
they seemed pretty darn smoth when i took them out of the box. So scotchbrite, is that like steel wool?
Steel wool would also work but be very careful to get all the fibers off after you clean them. The Kolenes have a definite texture to them that a regular steel does not.
well since 2/3 of the plates are in, should i disassemble it and do that to it? i cant find that suggestion anywhere on this board, im trying to call tci about it to ask for their input. thanks
I haven't been on this board all that long, but how many people on this board specialize in racing automatic transmissions?
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65567&highlight=kolene+steels There are two other trans guys who posted there with their opinions of the Kolenes.
