What happened to the "old" Nationals?

Discussion in 'GSCA events' started by ranger, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. ranger

    ranger Well-Known Member

    Thanks, guys!

    I have been out of the loop for too long!

    Looking forward to firing up my Gessler-ported/Bulldog-headed 464" with Wiesco flat-tops, 288-94 cam, old Kenne-Bell headers, 3" exhaust, Osborn Q-jet, Gessler-massaged T/A intake, .020" deck height, switch/pitch. 3:55 gears, etc.

    Hoping for 500 h.p. Is this possible? Gessler got the intakes flowing nicely on the Bulldogs but the exhaust is a dog--got them flowing about as well, but no better, than a good-flowing iron head.

    Hoping to see y'all at the next BPG show!

    Best,

    Ranger
    Aiken, SC
     
  2. mpvance

    mpvance Well-Known Member

    I'm a new member. I've been to the GSCA nats the last 2 years. I just discovered the BPG nats recently. Both are about the same distance from my home @3hrs. I plan to go to the BPG nats next year and may still go to the GSCA nats. I really am still a fan of the swap meets. I do ebay, but still really like the interaction. I do some swap meets locally, don't make much cash but I enjoy the interaction.
     
  3. Jim Jones

    Jim Jones Wretched Excess

    I will not speculate why others have dropped from the roles of the GSCA and stopped attending their events, but I will tell you why I did, and it can be summed up in one word. GREED. But I can never stop at one word.

    Sorry to be so blunt, but GSCA is not a club, it is a business. If you think otherwise, check with Richard and he will confirm it. I attended the GS nats for 13 years straight beginning in 1986. I have only attended sporadically since then. Whether I took a car or not, I had fun because of the new friends I met, and the old ones I reunited with. But I began to notice some things happening. Some people were being treated quite badly. Others were profiting handsomely. I started hearing comments like those mentioned by tufbuick. "If you don't like it, don't come".

    I came to the realization in the late 1990s that something was badly amiss. Many people offered suggestions to the "board of directors" of the GSCA how the events could be improved. Those suggestions were ignored, and many who made those suggestions were openly belittled. The editor's corner of the newsletter became nothing more than an avenue for the editor to explain how under appreciated he was. How much he had done for the membership, and how little he got in return. I started calling it "Poor Richard's Almanac". It became clear to me at that point, profit was the only consideration. It did not seem to matter that those who provided the revenue were being ignored and belittled. They were expected to remit their dues, and pay their entry fees, even if they receive little or no value for their expenditure. I took the comment to heart. "If you don't like it, don't come?" Very well, I won't. And in 2004, #643 dropped from the membership roles.

    Don't get me wrong here, I don't begrudge any one for making a profit. But be up front about it. Provide some value to customers, and profits will be realized. If it is a business, call it a business not a club. Don't confuse customer base with membership, there is a huge difference. The business model that seems to have been adopted by GSCA was if customers are going elsewhere for better value, raise prices, and the remaining customers will be happy to pay. After all, they are obligated. And it was this very high cost/low value ratio, and "they owe it to me" attitude, that caused me to sour on the GSCA.

    So, the economy, old age, health related issues, change of event dates, death, global warming, had very little to do with my decision. It was mainly that I received lower and lower value for higher and higher cost, and the attitude that I should be happy with it. It appears that nothing has changed. I had planned on attending the GS Nationals in 2012, but last minute circumstances did not permit it. After reading many of the comments on this board, I only somewhat regret missing it.
     
  4. Steve Reynolds

    Steve Reynolds SRE Inc

    Nail on the head there Jim.... but it's all been said before and for the most part it's been ignored. I've heard the same story almost verbatim from many members/ex-members.

    So much could be done that's not being done it's almost shameful. We all know it's a business and I too have nothing against that, but why would they not take the proper route to make everyone happier AND make themselves more MONEY?? It's almost mind boggling as to why they wish to screw this "business" into the ground! Huge tax write off?? Who knows what motivates some people.

    Steve
     
  5. Beamer

    Beamer Suncoupes Rule !!!



    I thought you were going to the Nationals this year. We were hoping to see you there and hang out for a while.

    You have some great points and could be much more productive by showing up in person. Whoever said don't come needs to take it back (I may have before, but I was wrong for that). The best way to accomplish something is to take charge and get it done. In person is much more beneficial than trying to improve things over the internet. Over the internet can easily be seen in the wrong manner, and that you are truly wanting to improve the program. The GSCA appears to need your help.

    I would like to suggest coming to BG next year and locating Bennet and Richard to have 1 on 1 talk in person with them with your suggestions. They will have to listen and I am sure you will have a more positive result when done in a professional manner (which I am sure you can do). After your talks with them, come by our trailer (Jim Rodgers and myself) and we will have some talks on how to better our relations and help the Buick community.

    Although, I would recommend coming to our trailer last so we could hang out more... We hope to see you there.



    On to the BG event. It can definitely be better and I would like to see the club (OK, business) do more for us. I have enjoyed all 5 past years that I have went and have met some great people there. The friendships are incredible and many only seen this one time a year. What can we do about it? I do believe in person talks with those that handle the event are better than typing out rants of disgust here. And I understand that may be one's only means of venting which is nowhere as effective. I also believe positive interactions are much more worthwhile than negative approaches. These events take a lot of energy to create, and I would hope some of those with the BPG event planning will chime in about this. How many times do you think Richard or Bennett receives a thanks for event? I know many do not think is it deserved, but maybe it would help them want to do more to improve the event. I know I thanked Bennet (the first time I have ever spoken with him) before leaving the event Saturday. He did not say much, but I feel it was helpful to let him know that we do appreciate the event.


    Mike
     
  6. tufbuick

    tufbuick RIP

    Mike, I agree with some of your points, well said. Thanks for your input.

    At this moment my mind is focused on the safety of my family and property after the devistation of Sandy.
    I will respond to this subject when I find the time.....I know you will understand !

    Ron
     
  7. Beamer

    Beamer Suncoupes Rule !!!

    I completely understand !

    I wish you all the best and a quick recovery. That was one nasty storm. We were on a cruise ship as it was entering the Atlantic and our port at Nassau was cancelled. So we floated around an extra day and got some serious sea legs going. I was still feeling the ground move yesterday after getting back Saturday.



    Mike
     
  8. gs1970455

    gs1970455 Well-Known Member

    I will chime in here: I'm the Race Director for the BPG. These events take more time then most people realize. As soon as our event is over, we are planning for the next year. The cost associated with putting an event together is unreal. From the price of the track, insurance, tickets, tents, and so many other things that people just take for grant when they go to one of these events. That's not counting the price of the newsletters, maintaining the web site, and processing memberships. It really does take alot of dedicated volunteers to make any event survive.

    My husband and I have attended the GS Nationals in the past, and he has been a member, on and off, for the last 10-15 years. I'm not going into details about why we don't attend as that isn't productive but I am going to say that I have voiced my opinions and offered suggestions on the GSCA board. I have offered to help them in any way I could, and I felt because I wasn't a "big name" in the Buick world my offers were brushed under the rug.

    The most important thing that I have learned while being the Race Director is that you can't make everyone happy, but you need to make as many happy as you possibly can. If you can't make the majority happy, you won't have an event.

    With our Board of Directors, each director has their area of responsibilities. For example, I have complete control over the race program. Any race problems, or concerns, are brought to me. I make the decisions about the classes, rules, and any other things that come up. If there's a problem that I can't handle, it then goes to Sean (president). Anyone who has attended our event knows where to find me. I'm in the staging lanes from the start of the event, until the last cars run down the track. I think one problem with the GS Nationals is that not everyone knows WHO to go to in the event they have a problem or concern. I know that I don't know who's in charge of things. I know Doug Hecker does Quick 16 (because I have known Doug for many years now) and I know Jim Rodgers does the BSA (because I've read it on here). Other than that, if I were in another race class, I wouldn't have a clue who to take my problems to. It might just be me, but trying to contact someone who is only available a couple hours out of the day, isn't always convenient and the internet is open 24 hours a day.

    I want to make it clear that I wish nothing but the best for the GS Nationals, I want ALL Buick events to succeed. There are Buick enthusiasts all over the globe and they all need a place to play. Being the small community that we are, we should all get along and help each other and that's what I'm trying to do.

    Edit: I forgot to add an important thing. As far as the "thanks and appreciation" go, at the BPG event I, personally, do feel appreciated and I get the "thanks" from some racers before, during and after the event. If I didn't get that, then I would have to take a look at the job I did. If no one is thankful, then I didn't do a good enough job. The other thing I do is scour the internet after the event. I'm registered on most of the Buick boards and I look at the feedback to get powerful information. What needs improved, what is good and how to make things better. I take all criticisms as suggestions and try to turn the bad, into good. You really have to want to be involved, to be involved. You go into these events knowing that not everything you do will be appreciated, because half the people don't know half of what you did, but as long as you did the best you could, you can appreciate yourself and that should be good enough to keep you going.
     
  9. artaction

    artaction Member

    John (from Gator T's) took those pictures Friday morning...you can see them here, starting about halfway down the page...http://www.artactiongraphics.net/gallery.php?gid=165&page_num=16&sort_by=id&sort_order=ascending

    I do agree with the sadness of the decline. I've only been attending the past 3 years, and it gets slower and slower. :(
     
  10. ranger

    ranger Well-Known Member

    "It might just be me, but trying to contact someone who is only available a couple hours out of the day, isn't always convenient and the internet is open 24 hours a day."

    Renee,

    Thank you for your informative and very-unbiased explanation about the BPG situation, the GSCA experience, and reminding all of us of the myriad problems and snafus that can occur when running such a complicated show.

    Yes, I always felt that there was a bit of a cryptic, covert "mystery" regarding the GS "club." As you say, calls were taken only several hours per day (at least when I was a member, tho that may have changed). As well, I never got to speak to "Richard" directly (I think). Rather, the guy who answered the phone usually went by the name of "Mark," as I recall.

    Even Mike T. has intimated that this was actually Richard who preferred the anonimity, for whatever reason--who knows?

    Still, I find it strange that someone who is operating a BUSINESS could not be a bit more transparant.

    I question how well he has done with his machine shop which he opened about 10 or so years ago? I find it curious that folks would not run a car powered by one of his "master" engines? Did ANYBODY run a car at this past NATIONALS with one of Wildcat's engines? If not, why not? As well, could Richard not take 'Ol Blue down the track, regardless, just for a "nostalgia" run?

    As I have said, I have been out of this loop for about 14 years. I am glad to know that we now have more options.

    Still, I will miss the (warm) spring cruises in the evening in Bowling Green, after the track closed, hanging out at the Sonic Drive In, sitting on the outside deck at Raffertys' restaurant and watching countless Buicks proudly strut their stuff, the bantering and bargaining with the vendors who took so much time and effor to "schlep" their parts all the way to the event--with no guarantee that it would be worth the effort, etc.

    I will do my best to be at the next BPG event!

    Best,

    Ranger
    Aiken, SC

    "And so we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past." F.Scott Fitzgeral
     
  11. MikeM

    MikeM Mississippi Buicks

    I'm not going to get into GSCA, BCA, BPG, or any other club. It doesn't matter.

    I'm getting tired of replacing batteries and flat tires. And of hard starting cars just because i don't run them enough. I'm not of the means of Jay Leno who employes people to take care of his cars. My cars sit most of the time. And that's not good.

    I represent the people that love these cars but don't have anyplace to drive them. In my area there are no Buick clubs at all. The closest event is hundreds of miles away. My cars just sit around for the most part. Perhaps someday a barn find. Not so far, but that's the direction.

    I'm speaking to the point why there isn't more turn out for the old GS cars. They are hard to keep going. And they are easy to break, even sitting still. Lets face it. In the 1980s we were racing GSs that were less than ten years old. Now they are forty years old. The GNs in the 90s were less than ten years old, now they are twenty years old.

    The GS cars are relics. We're racing horse and buggies. New cars have 500hp off the showroom floor. Someone wants $45k for an old Stg1, but I can get a faster newer car for less than that. The idea that cars since 1970 got slower and so they are collectible is not necessarily true any more. Although it breaks my heart, I have to admit that I think newer cars are a better vallue. And am selling what I have left of the GSs. Who wouldn't really prefer a brand mew Nissan Altima 3.5 SL over a 40 year GS Stg1 that needs work (they all do)?
     
  12. alan

    alan High-tech Dinosaur

    I wouldn't, but I'm just hard-headed like that.
     
  13. TROSE11SECGN

    TROSE11SECGN Boost is my drug

    I wouldnt either. Kind of sucks as i talked to several GS guys i know have been into these cars since new and also since inception of various Buick clubs and they all own multiple cars and now due to older age and health and wanting to thin the herd, they want to start selling off their collections. The tuner cars of the GT 500s and ZL1 s will continue to attract people. Especially the young crowd. But Buicks im not sure. A lot of young guys into TRs and several more into GS but the vast majority is over the age of mid 40s i bet some into their 60s/70s. Its a shame but nothing stays the same i guess.

    I hope these events continue and hope what happens in Europe with road tax costs skyrocketing and them trying to legislate old cars off the road doesnt happen in the US. I would have to get a new hobby:mad:

    ---------- Post added at 02:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 AM ----------

    Despite them being antiquated no one can argue the 60s/70s as the highpoint pinnacle of American hp and torque. Will never see it again on such a grand scale. Yeah its costs more to fix them and definitely will be more expensive to maintain but that is the fun of owning something like a GS or TR. Among the masses people can look at your car and be blown away because they may never see one again like it. The breathe you take away and owning a piece of Americana, like a time capsule is a huge adrenaline rush for me. Plus the friends i have met involved with Buicks around the globe with bench racing and beers is priceless to me!:bglasses:
     
  14. ranger

    ranger Well-Known Member

    Richard and/or other experts (Mike Phillips, etc.) used to hold tech seminars in the early evening. I believe they were always at a certain hotel. Do they still do that or have they gone by the wayside, as well?

    Best,

    Ranger
    Aiken, SC
     
  15. Duane

    Duane Member

    I was one of the speakers for the Restoration Clinic but I don't think they have had them for years.
    Duane
     

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