Be Careful! New Cars Spy on You and Report to the Mothership!

As I said, the dealership doesn't have access to that info. I wish we did, my job and my tech's jobs would be much easier. If the car has OnStar, damn right gm has access to it. But the dealership? No. The dealership and mother gm are not the same thing.

 

Well, I guess the mag article was a big lie. Vet

 

I'd like to see the so called magazine article........ Just for the fact I don't believe it was written.

Just for the FACT if these things were that EZ to read Hi Ways wouldn't be shut down for UM-TEEN hours doing follow up investigations after a accident.....

 

Please show me the magazine article...... No mag would have the balls to write and print it...... They would be sued to death by Chevrolet...

 

In Lucas post he mentions customer's secretly recording a conversation in the car. In some states, recording without informing the person recorded in advance is illegal. My guess would be that disclosing the recording would be the actual offense - that is why virtually every business plays a short recording that "this call may be recorded" when you call them.
I remember when On Star first came out we were told that it was possible for someone at On Star to listen to any conversation going on in the vehicle. They didn't do it because they were too busy handling other emergency stuff.

 

The government has that many resources and more. They have algorithms that search for key words and phrases constantly. They have backdoor taps into every carrier in or transitioning the US and likely with friendly countries as well.

Not to mention the backdoors into Google, Facebook and more. They have been doing it for more than a decade. Only a fool would believe they have tapped less.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/report-says-nsa-taps-directly-into-servers-of-major-tech-firms

 

A GM tech or anyone with a decent scan tool can look at GM's freeze frame or failure records data. That (limited) data has been accessible for several decades and is stored when the "check engine" light comes on. It is very valuable data and doesn't require a court order to review. A lot of times it proves people are flat-out liars. My favorite is when a GM customer comes in for their annual state inspection and the MIL is on. Instant failure. "It just came on on my way here", a quick scan of the FF data gives us a mileage at when light came on and other valuable data. Some of the other valuable data includes under what conditions the MIL came on at which helps us try to diag the problem. Engine temp, rpm, load, mph, etc all can be helpful. I wish they gave us a lot more, esp in OBD2 FF data. Some FF data includes fuel trims. Again, this is very useful esp for V-type engines or even 4 or 6 bangers with a bank 1 and bank 2. Have a lean code? I tell my guys to go right into FF data first to see what the other bank was doing at the time the MIL came on. Now you know whether you are looking a problem isolated to 1 bank or a problem common to both. For example, you have a lean code stored, FF data shows -25% on one bank and 1% on the other. The problem is likely to be something only on that 1 bank. FF data shows -25% on one bank, and the other bank shows -20%, now you have a situation where both banks are affected, but the second bank can still correct fuel trim (barely) and not set a second fuel trim code.

Air bag modules do indeed record all sorts of data during a crash involving bag deployments. That information is only available to certain entities and requires specialized tooling and proper legal channels. Remember when the throttle cables went away and folks were jumping on the "get rich quick" scheme by falsely claiming unintended acceleration that ended in a crash? Those were mostly debunked by crash data retrieved from the air bag module. Toyota was in the hot seat on that one, and they only had 2 scan tools in country that could read the data. Those scan tools were moving from case to case. Aside from a runaway floor mat or 2 or someone who stepped on the wrong pedal, most of those cases were debunked from a misbehaving throttle body or PCM. Some manufacturers had recalls to update software so make sure the brakes had enough power to overcome the engine, or derate the engine, I can't recall anymore.

Cameras are another story. A/M cameras we know to keep the shop banter away while working on said vehicle. Factory cameras are a little different. Using Toyota's factory service scan tool (Techstream) I have the ability to view a crash involving a Toyota vehicle with a bag deployment that's equipped with the Safety Sense 1 or 2 system, aka a LDW or LKA camera. Of course I would need permission and I never had the desire to view that data. I'm pretty sure all of Teslas cameras are recording all the time. I'm not sure if any other factory cameras record other than those 2 makes. I think it would be a useful option to use the FFC as a real-time dash recording camera. That would aid in traffic disputes. Just like remote starters started out as an aftermarket add-on, maybe a dash cam will be a factory-equipped option soon too.

 

I went for the mileage based plan with Allstate. There was a significant reduction. They do have a monitor that plugs into the OBD2 port. My 1988 Saab and 1991 F-150 don't have OBD2 so they get charged on a est 2k or so per year mileage. My 2001 Jeep and 2023 Bronco have the monitors to record mileage. And trace my routes, look at max speed, time of day, and 'hard braking' activity. I usually drive 1-2 days/week since my retirement almost 2 years ago.
I sometimes get dinged for slowing from 50 mph to turn into my driveway. WTF, I live on a main road so that's what I gotta do.
I don't like the route monitoring..... I don't drive much, but if I go the the gun shop and then go to buy beer, that may not look good!
My rate has almost doubled in the past 2 years. I may move the old Saab and F-150 to my classic insurance policy with my GS's.
I'm at about $113/month for my 4 drivers, it was under $60 2 years ago (w/o the 2023 Bronco).

 

Thanks for the insight. I'm afraid they won't like how I drive although with as little as we drive (& perfectly clean record) it might still be cheaper & might even cause me to drive a little less agressive (aggressively courteous but still...). Idk if my '92 F-250 Diesel has a OBD2 plug but that's an interesting angle & I like driving it.

 

Good article that reinforces what we know already. The last line says all you need to know:

A LexisNexis spokesperson told the Times that the information it takes in from OnStar is “for insurers to use as one factor of many to create more personalized insurance coverage.”

Our previous thread:

https://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/every-new-car-is-a-privacy-nightmare.389921/

 

Snapshot from Progressive has been logging this type of data for quite some time, now.

 

The main issue at hand is not that they are doing it, but your consent to allow it. Let's face it, nobody reads the fine print. However if you sign up for a service, or install a device that monitors your driving habits in the hopes to lower your rates, or to help you navigate down the road, you know damn well you have consented to be tracked. There is no expectation of privacy.

When a company is tracking you without your knowledge or consent and selling it to 3rd parties, when you have not knowingly signed up for or installed a device, there is a reasonable expectation of privacy.

The Seattle area businessman has no leg to stand on. He willingly, albeit likely never read the fine print, signed up and consented for OnStar to track his driving habits! Zero expectation of privacy. It this day and age that's not even ignorance but plain stupidity for him to say “It felt like a betrayal,” “They’re taking information that I didn’t realize was going to be shared and screwing with our insurance.”

Go back one page. Watch the video I posted. Pull the antennae. Done.

 

One wrinkle: I wonder if the owner was the one that clicked all the dialogues on the radio. Some new car dealers get bonuses to have you sign up for the app, and it could have been the salesperson that clicked agree to everything and told the customer "let me see your phone a minute to add this handy app."

 

Yes, in fact you need to Opt in to share it. Same for On-star.

Tesla on the other hand records everyone's driving data, but doesn't share it with insurers.

They do use it to score drivers. The people who are considered the safest (fewest close calls, excessive speed, etc.) get self driving software updates first. Basically they know who the safest drivers are and those people get the cutting edge self driving software first.

 

Vendetti Buick/GMC in Franklin, MA had a Corvette in it's shop (please don't ask why a Corvette wound up in a Buick/GMC dealership, I simply don't know). The driver had ignored a "Road Flooded" sign and found, much to his displeasure, that the road was indeed, flooded. The water he guessed, was about four inches deep; he felt that the 'Vette could handle it. It probably could have, but unfortunately the depth was closer to four feet. The engine hydrolocked, the transmission and differential were full of water as well. Vendetti was replacing the engine, overhauling the transmission, and cleaning the differential. The owner wanted GM to warranty the mess, but GM said basically "In a Pig's a--". The customer was footing the bill for the whole thing. One of the Vendetti techs told me that the guy had tried to get his insurance company to foot the bill under his collision insurance; the insurance company's position was that the guy was covered for accident, not stupidity damage. I agree with the insurance company, which is rare with me.

 

Wow, that's an interesting twist. Vet

 

I don't think it had to.

 

100%!
Advancing technology in medicine, and procedures is good, but everything else leave it 80's style