Budget for a Competitive FAST & Pure Stock Car?

Well, I'm fascinated by the Pure Stock racing and I also like the FAST series. I know they are different but I'm curious about what kind of budget is realistic to build a "competitive" car for each type of racing.

How are the "Pure" stocker getting into 11's (if I understand that correctly)?

I would be interested in a 70 GS for either class but would want it to be respectable with it's performance as compared to the TOP dogs.

I'm new and I have NO racing experience other than auto-crossing my Honda S2000. I really LOVE 4 speed cars although I know they are tougher to run consistently FAST.

How about some budget ideas on what I need to consider if I want to get into this part of the muscle car hobby.

 

Deliver your car up here and send a bunch of money. Just finishing another Stage 1 in the shop.3 more to go so far.

 

"BUDGET" and "F.A.S.T." don't equate. You're gonna need some of that government bailout money to campaign a competitive F.A.S.T. car, especially if you want to be there with the front runners. I think Dave Dudek listed an estimated $ amount to get a hemi car to the 10's. You'll have to ask Greg Gessler what it takes to make a Buick go fast.

Don't bother to ask Terry how much to get a Corvette to the 10's cause he doesn't keep track. :Brow:

 

WOW, it cost that much! I know how fast you want to go is only a matter of how much you want to spend. What is Greg's best time so far with his Buick? I am curious as to a budget to build his car as he seems to be one of the faster Buicks.

I'm just getting into learning about all this so who else is running a Buick and what kinda times are they posting?

 

Rob,

Others on this board with much more PS experience and credibility than me (actually, I'll be a newbie next year myself and therefore have NO experience or credibility) will probably tell you it would be best to start a little smaller than a Top Dog. Did you get your private in a Pitts Special or P-51? Kinda like that (if you DID, you ARE my hero). Sounds like you might have the $ to make it happen, but I would guess that most of the Top Dogs are very seasoned drag racers. Since there is only one PS stick car in the 11s and only a handful of autos, that tells me something.

As far as the cost, you could seek out the most highly reputable race engine builder in your area and ask them what it would take to build and tune a 455 Buick using factory parts to NASCAR tolerances and that might give you a ballpark figure. Same for the transmission and rear end.

As I said, I'll be a newbie this year (knock on wood) and my Bird will be what it will be. If I'm lucky, I'll crack the 13s. Is that competitive or respectable? Don't know, but that's what I'm bringing to the party.

Good luck and I hope you make it to the races next year!

 

I think Greg Gesslers F.A.S.T. 72 Buick GS 455 Stage 1 has gone 11.00 @ 125 MPH.

Dave Dudeck is in there at 10.40 in his F.A.S.T. Hemi Road Runner.
Terry Pennington ran a 10.30 at their last event in his F.A.S.T. 1969 L88 Corvette.

These guys are running in the 1.50 area for 60 foot times on reproduction bias ply tires. Who needs slicks with those kinds of times.

 

Rob, do you run the Xcross in Ft Myers? I think Langford runs his 'stang there also... I have been there several times..

 

Rob
I did just what you are thinking about. And with a Buick to boot. I am lucky enough to have three other people who also race Buicks in the class, all within 20 miles of me. It has been a learning experience, a fun one at that!
My car is a completely matching numbers 1970 Stage1. I have got it to run a fastest time of 13:61 as is. I believe there is another couple of tenths in it, they way it sits. It was pictured a couple of months back in Muscle Car Review. At my first race back in the spring.
I raced in one event this year, both here in the state. The other event was rained out. These events for the pure stock portion were PSMCDR run.
In pure stock we race a 2 out of 3 elimination, with the car that quailfied next to you time. I know there a cars out there in the class that run in the tens and elevens. But for a buick to get there you would have to be "outside the spirt of the rules". They just don't breath that well compared to the pontiacs, chevys, and mo-pars. I will be replacing the engine this year. I would hope to get in to the mid to high twelves with it. You are very limited on what you can do. But it is the botherhood of racing, everyone extenting their hands freely to help, the partys in the parking lots afterwards that will bring you back.
Jim Wise outlined for me on the board here his thoughts on building a Pure Stock race engine and transmission. You could search the board....It was in one of Augustina's post about changing the engine in their Wildcat.
good luck in your quest! Good luck. Jim

 

Here's the post Jim is talking about...

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=149586

A very nice detailed view of building a respectable engine.....

Lon

 

To be competitive in Pure Stock, all you need to do is "know" your own car, and by that I mean have it tuned to the best of your ability, and "know" how to launch your car without blowing the tires off, and cut a better light than the guy your matched up with in your 2 outta 3 mini shootout. If you win 2 outta the 3, you are/were competitive.
Furthermore, it doesn't matter if your car runs 15.50, 13.50, or 12.50, you will be paired with someone that runs almost identicle times to what your car runs, you just have to "know" your car to take the shootout.
Win or lose, I guarantee you will have FUN, and it will have been some of the closest racing you have ever experienced.

As far as cost, I would say as with anything in the classic car hobby, the more you can do yourself, the less it will cost out of pocket vs. paying someone else to do all the work. I have built several cars over the last 10 years in a partnership with my Dad. We do all of our own bodywork, and chassis restoration ourselves. One of my best friends does our paintwork.
I have another friend who rebuilds our transmissions, and he and I work together on the engines, but I have him do the final assembly(hey he does it everyday, and it's second nature to him. What he can assemble on a Saturday afternoon would take me 3 weeks, I'm too busy doing bodywork)
Having talented friends in the right places has afforded me the opportunity to build several cars that I have actually been able to have less money into them than what I sold them for. That was the past when you could turn a profit, I don't think it can be done in todays current market.

The only real advise I could give a newbie is, It's your car and all that matters is that you make yourself happy. If your one of those guy's who is going to be "buried in this car", spend away, but if your like me, and you know it's not going to be with your "forever", you might want to spend wisely,and enjoy the car well tuned as-is.:TU:

F.A.S.T.--As much as I like the Buicks, if I wanted to be "competitive" in the F.A.S.T. class, only one make/model car comes to mind--L88 Vette:Smarty:
You could dump all the money in the world into a Buick, only in the end to find out you have brought a very expensive(fragile) knife to a gunfight:blast:

 

Great comments from everyone.

I'm reading through the link of JW's article regarding a Pure Stock build. PSMCDR seems like the route that would be more accessible to me living in SW Florida unless I want to drive waaay up north for the bigger events.

I plan to attend the BOPC event in Gainesville, FL in early December to watch and learn. I went last year and the turnout for the Stock drags seemed very small.

Thanks for the info and I look forward to learning more!!

 

It does cost a lot to build a very competitive F.A.S.T car .To try to be competitive it takes tweaking every conceivable aspect of a car to gain.Some are cheap like weight reduction others get pricey .My car ran poorly for a while till other F.A.S.T racers gave me much needed advice.It is probably a good thing that my car didn't make any more power than it did a first .More power would have just made it tougher to get a handle on getting the car down the track. Engine and other drivetrain components can run into big money but you don't have to spend it all at once .Gradual upgrades to meet a budget are what many people do. It would be in some ways easier to build a engine with aftermarket parts and make more power for less money than using hard to find factory original parts and maxing them out.I have alot in my engine without doing the heads and intake out to the max.That will cost a bunch more.Trans work ,a converter and good internal pieces.Suspension is a often forgoten area that can realy help.Ignition box and components.Rear end upgrades axles center section brake upgrades.Alum rad upgraded fuel line tank and fuel pump..I have over $60 in my Fairlane and am not running at the front but have made big gains.I leave hard but just dont have the horse power many of the others have.I run less mph than almost any body in the 11's even on my 11.18 pass it only went 121 mph. I am pulling the heads and intake and dropping them of this week to a well known Ford super stock engine builder to get the max out treatment .A new cam and I hope to see some 10 second runs are coming early next year.You can build a F.A.S.t car and start with a basic package and inprove slowly knowing all along the rules rarely ever change and you will be good to go whenever you are ready to run.It is really a great group of guys to race with and hangout with . :3gears: [/IMG]

 

Rob,

Your halfway there with the shortblock you have here.. and I could use what you have now, and could build you a reasonably competative FAST motor for probably less than those hens teeth STG 2 Iron castings are going to cost.(If we ever find a set) Granted, we aren't talking about a 500+ cube FAST motor with the 3K billet crank, but certainly one fast enough to put the car well into the 11's.

In the last few months, I have built both an NHRA spec legal PSMCDR motor, as well as a 10-1 all iron 455, with FAST type heads and intake. Both motors made roughtly the same power..(mid 400's HP). One did it with compression and cam timing, the other with airflow from the porting. It would be neat to do a combination of both.. The fully ported iron heads and intake, ported stock exhaust manifolds.. big compression and maybe one those new Hyd roller cams from TA.. should easily surpass the 500 HP mark.

Fun project.. and an all iron 455 with stock exhaust manifolds, over 500 HP, is a very rare bird indeed..

Something to consider...

JW

 

Chris,

I hear what you're saying about getting the basics together and working on "tuning" your setup to get the maximum out of it. Taking it a bit at a time and really learning the car to help identify driving techniques as well as engine and chassis tuning will take time and the journey is part of the fun, not just the final destination.

Were you at the Gainesville, FL event last December? If yes then I did stop by and chat with you a bit. I really like your car and I love the idea of squeezing every last bit out of FS or Stock Appearing car. It's amazing how hidden performance is really in these cars.

Still learning but I get more excited as I learn more!!

Thanks,

Rob

 

JW,

I have been thinking about alternatives for that shortblock at your shop so it's neat that you read this thread and offered something to think about. If you could take a little time and spec out a couple of options for that engine; (1) the PSMCDR engine and (2) the FAST engine.

I am interested in understanding options. I am still kinda set on locating those extremely difficult to find STAGE 2 IRON HEADS. To have an authentic Stage 1 GSX 4 Speed car upgraded to a period correct STAGE 2 engine would be something special.

I guess there's really no race class for the Stage 2 powered GSX anyways since it's not "stock?" How would a Yenko car run as far as class since they were dealer optioned?

Thanks and let me know if you can come up with some options for our engine project.

Anyone know of some nice Stage 2 heads I can buy???

Thanks,

 

I'm not Jim, but as far as Pure Stock, '67-8 Yenko cars aren't legal (unless running the original 396, I suppose), but '69 Yenko Camaros/Chevelles are legal since they're factory built 427 cars + stripes...

 

Yes that was me in Gainsville last dec.That was the the first time I got it out and made a bunch of runs.What a diffrence a season makes ,I sure was eratic with it back then .I did have a good time down there racing and hanging out with everyone.Maybee again next year.

 

I dunno...

I'm almost positive I saw a youtube video of Gessler's GS running a 10.80-something. That was a while back, so I'd imagine it's only gotten faster. :TU:

 

For a Pure stock car, roll down the driver's window and keep shoving in $20 bills until the interior is full. Then keep adding more to that. That is about the budget for a nice Pure Stock car.

For a FAST car, see above but substitute $50's instead of the $20's.