Let it slide, that's cool. Its looks like TA did a great job with their Rover heads, they flow above what any of the factory offering can even be ported to! Looks to be an excellent product from TA. Wish they made an SP3 style intake that made their Rover heads work on the sbb 300 and spacers for it so it would work with the sbb 340 as well.
Come on dude, give it up. We didn't restore this thread for you to screw it up again. 1 last time Derek, lets see where things go after a valve job and some more testing. Surely you can take a break for 2 or 3 weeks and see where we end up can't you?? It really looks like this is all about you not the heads. Seriously you are wearing out a lot of people with your relentless bs. So it was about the heads wouldn't out flow the iron head out of the box at first to they won't out flow big dollar max effort iron heads now? You are ridiculous. You seem to want this to fail. If not for anything else how about you shut it for the rest of the SBB guys out there because I am doing all this for free "for" the sbb guys that care about this project because they actually have a dog in the fight.
This thread should not have been taken away in the first place based on someones comments about a product. So no one thinks the heads should have outflowed my 235-176 heads I had done over 25 years ago. I should be able to put these on and outrun what I have now, don't you think? The cost is the factor here spending 2800 for heads and then having them ported to be where mine are costs extra money, that puts them over 3 grand, That is where Derek's griping is legit. But hey, they flow more than stock. I have seen nothing but keyboard racing the last 10 years here. Got about 7 guys here that have made it happen. In all reality without the ported stock heads the alums should do just fine. That is what most people have I just happen to have ported heads that Idid 25 years ago I did this when there was absolutely no support for the 350.
Guy, yes you have done a great job racing your 350 and we respect you for that! Your engine proves the reliability of the 350. I see your point regarding the flow numbers but I would be willing to bet $ your car would go faster with a set of TA heads and no other changes. Your engine was 396 hp with a huge un streetable cam while Michael is now running a 480 hp engine with a much more tame camshaft. No one is ridiculing math, we are simply pointing out that these heads can’t be condemned based on a few numbers. William Mahoney (bill mah) and Scott (https://www.shafiroff.com) spent literally hundreds of hours experimenting with porting iron Buick 350 heads and doing dyno testing each Saturday as a hobby. They ended up at 550 hp with 8:1 compression and then 1021 HP with a supercharger. They put that engine into a car and ran 8 second quarter miles. No stroke added, 355 cubes. Eagle crank and child’s and Albert rods with custom pistons. No block girdle. They did this for a reason, they wanted to show what the Buick 350 could do as it was designed by Buick. The rods were stock length, pistons stock compression height. They had to start over 4 times because of cylinder heads cracking, thousands of $ in time and money went into each set of iron heads. The worst thing was the inconsistency of the heads, thin spots in one set were not the same on other heads. Each set they ported was a little different once they got to the problem thin areas. Once they ported them to the max effort there was barely any metal in important places where they needed it! There were 2 people from Edelbrock at the dyno session in NY, they came to witness this project reach its culmination. They were impressed and they agreed that with a set of alum heads this engine could be a real powerhouse in a small light package. So about a year later Edelbrock sent Scott a set of heads. Prototype Buick 350 heads. They flow tested them and the results were promising. They bolted them on and they were down big time in HP and TQ. They spent a bunch of time trying to point out the flaws and help eddy improve the design. But at that point Edelbrock abandoned the project, it just wasn’t something they had enough interest in, plus a small customer base. My point is that it’s not easy to design and produce a cylinder head, this is an art! I’ve spoken to the designer that TA hired to do the 350 heads and I’ve seen the progression of patterns and moulds over the past few years. I’ve been blessed to develop a friendship with Michael, he is a super awesome person and him and his dad are seriously devoted to Buick’s and more so the community! It’s not easy to make something like TA Performance work, it’s all custom stuff and there is a small niche market. It’s not like they sell thousands of parts a month. When I first got into Buick’s I was shocked at TAs prices, and over the years I have learned that we need to invest our money into TA because they are investing in us! You know what hurts me though, like really deep down??? Michael and his family gave a ton of money and time into these heads and people aren’t giving them a fair shake. Also, when there are more developments and testing done then then the next run of heads will be gradually improved. This is what TA has done with their BBB heads, I’m not sure how many times but at least 3 times they have improved the heads based on the things learned by porting racing and feedback. And as a solute to the Buick community Chris Skaling is sharing his knowledge and testing with TA to help further the progression. Head porting is an art, and it takes a ton of time to perfect these things. Let’s have fun, let’s build some hot little 350s and go beat up on the Mopars
TA makes good heads. At this point I think everybody knows that. Given past performance it defies reason to think these new heads would be anything less than stellar, so let's see some engines built around them. We're all champing at the bit, and can hardly wait. Because they are expensive though, a certain market segment isn't going to order before somebody other than TA (Mike Jr.) confirms their results. Nothing against them, it's just human nature. Then I'd expect to see sales pick up. So for you guys who support the effort, the best thing you can do is get out there with the new engine. That'll probably happen this spring. Given how long of a wait it was to get the heads in the first place that delay is rather meaningless. I can't do it. I don't have a 350 and can't recommend one to my peers. But I can and do recommend the 300 regularly, as well as the 455 occasionally in special cases. (The MGB-Roadmaster continues on tour, this spring will mark the start of its 8th year on tour!) That car runs the TA SE heads for reduced weight and exhaust port clearance and it draws a crowd everywhere it goes. I don't know that it promotes TA's business though as it has stamped valve covers. Oh well, I tried. Some of you got to see the car at the Nats a couple of years ago when we got rained out, hopefully we will be able to make another appearance next year. I am not aware of anyone with a set of TA heads on a 300. I'm now building two of them. One is slated to replace the 340 in my MG, the other is going to Bulgaria, also in an MGB. But I will say that if you have a 2bbl iron head 300 in pretty good shape, a head and intake swap could really wake that engine up. So while I can't really support the 350 effort, I want to see it do well and I'll encourage it where I can. However, I'll also defend anybody's right to state their own opinion even if they are wrong. Overall Derek has been a big contributor here. Sometimes controversial but never irrelevant. You guys need to just back off a little. Jim
I have to say this too, but i'm sorry Derek, but if you own a fully running machine shop, if I was in my youth I would most likely not enjoyed being a apprentice under you.. It seems your way is the only way no matter what. Lord forgive if someone had some of their own ideas.. I'm also the first to admit, that I am just a backyard mechanic..
You guys are blasting me and I didn't even mention the 350 heads in the post you're replying t0o! That was a reply to JB about the TA Rover heads, follow the thread, dude. JB is in the middle of a sbb 300 stroker build using the TA Rover heads, that shout out about the TA Rover heads was for what JB is working on, where he bought a set of those heads already. I was even speaking highly of TA products without mentioning the 350 heads. If I post boo, is that going to trigger you guys too?
That's a bit unfair Peter, you haven't even ever met me. I have actually trained many apprentices that went on to do great things and make BIG $$$. I don't have my own machine shop, just the Bridgeport that's in my avatar in my garage and a for cutting steel band saw. But those are for hobby work, the machines I work on at work are way more advanced than what I have in my garage. I do get a bit passionate when it comes to sbb 300/340/350 engines and only want the best for them, I apologize to anyone that misunderstands that.
Jim, the only part I do not agree with you on is that when opinions are made on "personal feelings" not experience from actually having the heads in your hands, on your seat and guide machine on the porting bench and on the flow bench I can not respect that bs. Like I said it is irrelevant if you have not had them in your hands and worked on them to form a actual opinion, without it you only build false negative opinions and and screw up a perfect good project like this. How do I know that?? Because after all this bench racing and knocking on these 350 heads you guys haven't even seen, tested or used. I myself am also starting to get fed up and losing interest in these new heads so I bet many others are feeling the same way over all this posting of negative and what I consider very inaccurate info being spread all over the net. If you guys want to go down in the sbb history books as the crew that killed the new buick 350 heads just keep spreading the unfounded claims being made here. You want me to back off? I feel the same way about the constant negativity around people that have not had a go at these heads but are filled with opinions. I will say it again, I do not think a lot of the flow#s posted are simply nothing more then a base line to better and bigger things. Bitching about it does nothing but put a large cloud over this project. 14 sets sold and how many are in use? Out of those 14 sets how many of you guys bashing these them have either worked on them or own a set? Jim, not sure if you know that I am the one that messaged you that offer on FB last night or not about a set of 350 heads. That was meant to help you see what I am seeing in these heads. As far as Derek goes, if he is gonna keep bashing these heads without ever working on them to form a legitimate opinion I will push back.
I don't see where there's bashing. I see passionate people concerned or wanting the best option. Times are tough and money is tight with any project. If a product that lacked information, I hoped all would question it. If someone offered a product that needed more polishing, expect scrutiny. It's fair for anyone to question. IMHO, I have a feeling that there are some that want to go the next level past the 480hp Dyno engine. That's all that the information they have. They don't know what the exact extent of the heads potential. There is no data! Is it fair for them just to take to the chin and purchase the product and become a test mule themselves? It's a gamble. Who's game? Some may think this criticism is a slam towards TA but it isn't. It's being a smart consumer every potential customer is allowed to be informed of every purchase. TA is in high regard here it's the untested finished waters that make people hesitant IMHO. Missouri..."Show Me"
I wish I could but they were done by TA back in 94 and that is what they told me they were at. I knew nothing about those numbers then I just knew they were ported and I had the larger valves put in. I can only tell you the engine was at 10.6 comp. Had 395 hp with a TA 510 cam@ 6000 rpm. I can show pics but that's about it.
Julian, I have seen these heads in person, I have valve jobbed them, ported them, Flowed them etc but you, Derek, Jim etc Trump what I have seen and learned in testing? Are you guys even in the market for these 350 heads? I am having a hard time understanding how you guys do not have a dog in this fight, hell no dog, no collar no nothing but you are loaded with opinions with no facts. This is just ego stroking from people that saw pictures and are now expert head porters. I have had enough of this High school drama.
Your right and I don't know you. I was a bit out of line and my bad.. I guess I missed the passion part I did think that behind that Bridgeport was a big machine shop!!
There has been this drama here for 10 years now. I wish I had those heads when I built this motor I do not know if I can swing the cash for it now as I have had 10 years of not much on the job front, this has slowed me Way down on upgrading my motor. Sean, where so you get off on telling me I had a UNstreetable motor with that 510 cam in, you ran a complete novel on who had done what with their engine and again what have you done lately. I have been watching you for 10 years now and you still haven't done nothing on getting a motor done. You ramble as much as Derek does. You should have had the motor done over 5 year ago but for some reason you want to build this totally MAX effort 350. I guess so you can show you are the best of the best with this 350 You could have easily built that turbo motor but I see someone else has beaten you to the punch. Both Mart and Demko got their motors done before you did. Hell, they should write the book on the 350. But you appreciate what I have done and now you talk like I am on the sideline now since I built a Unstreetable 350. There was NO problem running this 510 cam on the street I ran 13.60@ 101, 81 in the 1/8 with that cam I could sit at idle in gear for over an hour if I wanted too, the only problem it had was getting out of the hole and that is where I needed a 410 gear and a 3800+ stall convertor. Just think where that power would be if I had that SP3. Oh BTW Mike Jrs. cam is bigger than that 510 cam 600 lift I had 576. His duration is smaller than the 510 cam and his engine has better parts on the bottom than what I had 25 years ago. So yeah it should have a 100 more horse than me don't you all think? Hey I had 395 Hp at 6100 it has taken 25 years to get past 450 hp. and mine still runs where are those others at right now. I have really had enough of this get tired of the same crap on here too.
You are funny. I’ve built a bunch of 350s, had tons of fun with them and learned a lot. About 9 years ago I built a nice internal balanced 350 with ARP, 74 rods and TRW pistons, it’s fresh on the stand with ported irons all ready to run. By the time I was done that engine the Herche rods had came out so I built an engine with Diamond pistons and it’s all ready to go waiting in a stand. Then when the block girdle was released I started collecting parts to build my latest engine which is getting the billet crank and alum heads. The short block is ready and the heads are being worked on now. So what if I want to build a better Buick, it’s the progression. And the more engines I have on stand by the better. Speaking of which I should order a billet stroker crank, another set of alum heads and get started on my next girdled block... I’ve got 6 bare blocks that I need to inspect and find the best candidate, girdle is here already. I’ve got a turbo good for 1800 hp so maybe it’s time to see if I can break that 1021 hp record. In between this time I built a nice forged piston 350 for the turbo car I sold and it did 460 hp at the tires. Then the guy went to a 1200 hp LS engine and sold it back to me so now that engine sits on a stand as a spare. I do this as a hobby, I enjoy it..
You are funny. I’ve built a bunch of 350s, had tons of fun with them and learned a lot. About 9 years ago I built a nice internal balanced 350 with ARP, 74 rods and TRW pistons, it’s fresh on the stand with ported irons all ready to run. By the time I was done that engine the Herche rods had came out so I built an engine with Diamond pistons and it’s all ready to go waiting in a stand. Then when the block girdle was released I started collecting parts to build my latest engine which is getting the billet crank and alum heads. The short block is ready and the heads are being worked on now. So what if I want to build a better Buick, it’s the progression. And the more engines I have on stand by the better. In between this time I built a nice forged piston 350 for the turbo car I sold and it did 460 hp at the tires. Then the guy went to a 1200 hp LS engine and sold it back to me so now that engine sits on a stand as a spare. I do this as a hobby, I enjoy it..
Did I ever claim to be an expert on the 350 heads? Nah, somebody just likes to stir things up I think. If you have actual results on the 350 heads I guess that makes you the expert at least for awhile. Let's see then, who has that? Mike Jr only so far? Guess he's it. Shy of that what do we have? Other TA heads. Is using those as examples relevant? Apparently not. Instead we have to resort to vaporous claims from someone just because he has a flow bench. That may be perfectly valid, or it may be completely wrong. Is that better than comparison to similar products from the same source? Apparently somebody thinks so. Sounds like bench racing to me. I don't really see any difference. Jim
