Alan you are right on with the "mods" thing. I was almost thrown out of the 68-69 class because of headers, a tach and oil press/temp gauges. Yet the older gentleman was given no flak over tons of chrome on his engine on top of the same mods that I had. As soon as I rolled up the lady checking us in heard my loud pipes, peeked in at the dash and said to me "you're modified". I was a little confused once I saw the chrome on the other vert. Not to take anything away from him, he has a beautiful car. That being said I think the 100 point system they are using is very good. The car show guys should be pleased with the way the show is judged.
Bringing back participant/peer judging would cure the lack of cars problem.Everybody feels they have a chance in those shows but some of the people think it turns into a popularity contest and "lesser" cars than thiers end up winning.That is the problem and the solution as my eyes see it. Just means a bunch of ballots to count!!!!! Peace WildBill
Bill I would agree that everyone casting a vote was more fun. But then you have a problem with the "buddy system" where the guy with a nice car gets overlooked because everybody knows the other guy.
Its funny anyone at the Nationals should be picky about who is in the show, since noone bothers to show up anymore. I am very pleased to find out about the BPG show in August. Count me in. I will take my discontented self to Ohio and enjoy. So long as the GS club remains mired in its current state, Bowling Green is unfortunately out of the picture. One note: There are four major Buick vendors that support our hobby (in no particular order) Year One Poston Enterprises T/A Performance CARS How many showed up to the Nationals in Bowling Green this year? One. Sad. Apparently they don't think enough people attend to make any money at the event, otherwise they'd be there. Robert Rennick
Marco, in my opinion, no they would not bump you out of class. I would only suggest you maybe take a regular air filter element or remove the K&N and just place your stock lid on the stock base/ram air unit. Does the K&N completely replace the stock air cleaner unit, or are you just talking about the filter element itself? If it's just the element, remove it for the show and put the lid on. If it's the complete cleaner assembly, why not just have the stock unit on hand and use it in the show? One less thing to worry about.
Yes it is Jim. It leaves a 1 inch gap to prevent the 'suck-air' phenomenon. I needed to buy a longer air cleaner stud. I'll post a picture later when I'm home :Brow:
Well, the one thing about them coming and bringing parts, is no matter what they bring, someone needs the other color or another item that they didn't happen to bring. Legendary was there as well, but was just taking orders for that reason, along with the extra staffing required to bring parts. They were offering an approximate 10% show discount. I guess the rest of the vendors figure you've got their catalog, so you can just order from it. Why show up. Jeff
Well, I'll tell you about my last attempt at bringing one of my cars to the GSCA NATS. When I towed my 71 GS 455 (painted like Brad's black 71 GSX) the 900 miles to BG. I made it to the fairgrounds and was stopped and asked if I was in the GSX class. I said no,it was a GS 455 painted like a GSX (remember, all GSX parts were optional on any GS in 1971). The guy started to studder about how my car was too modified for the GS 455 class. I politely asked why is that, to which he pointed to the rear spoiler. I informed him(politely) that the rear spoiler was a 1971 option. At this point he started to get flustered and points to the hood tach. I again informed him it was an option. Now he's pissed and says" your car is painted like a GSX". I say," Look, I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but I can see the GS 455 row from here and there are at least two or three cars painted "non-original" colors. Not to mention at least one 69 GS convertible that has a B4B manifold. I asked "why not let me go into the GS 455 class (my car is an original 71 GS 455) and the judging will simply play out anyway because there were much more original cars that would surely out point mine. At this point the guy turns his back on me and calls the head guy over who hears my car idling and says I have a modified cam( it idles a little rough...:grin: ) to which I jokingly reply "I'll shut it off so no one hears it". At this point both guys walk away from me and yell over their shoulders "Street Machine Class". I ended up parked next to a pro-streeted Apollo with a chromed tunnel ram engine(beautifull car by the way). Perhaps my car is too modified for a "STOCK" GS 455 class, but there is a need for a class to accomadate cars like mine. At least eliminate some of the "selective" enforcement.Thats why I'll never take one of my cars to the Nats again( I have four cars). I know that I'm gonna lobby hard for a place in the sun for my type car at the upcoming BPG Nats. I'll even volunteer to help in running the class.....:beer
Ohhh !!! FINALLY the truth comes out !!! It was YOU who sick'ed the intake Police on me afterallou: Bennettdicked Arnold (SP ?? :laugh: )
Dont let me start on the reason why I dont like the show anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:af: I will never bring a show car to the GSNATS again....ever!!!
Al, although painful for you at the time, that is absolutely hysterical. I love the fact they bitched about the cam. A little bit of authority goes a long way doesn't it. Glad they didn't know you had non-original oil, coolant and air in your tires. You might have been escorted right off the property, and rightly so! They are going to have a bang up show next year, all four cars that end up making the trip. By the way, how did Richard's Ole Blue end up in the Concours class, clearly should have been put in the Street Machine section. Non original rims, intake, header, stereo etc. Different rules for different folks I imagine. Thanks for the smile Al. Robert Rennick
OK guys, now is the time to tell me what you want in the BPG car show. I am right now making up the classes for the show. It's now or never. Don't just say I want a class where my car would fit...tell me exactly what rules we should shoot for in a specific class. I see a concours class, a pure stock class, a "minor mod" class and a street machine (race car) class. You need to tell me how far a "minor mod" is in your view. Remember, be specific. Should we break this down by years, HT vs. convert, etc. I am looking at 18-20 classes for the show. Your suggestions should fall within that number. You may, if you wish, email me directly at: kg8s@arrl.net if you do not wish to post on the board. I promise you I will listen to all suggestions and ideas. Please keep it brief, specific and to the point. Thanks!
Brad: I would like to see the pure stock and minor mod class combined to one class. Total pure stock cars would likely all be in the concours class. I have a stock car but for a B4B, headers and hidden electronic ignition. At last years nationals I was in the stock class and would hope to get the same type classification. Also, and this is not a slam, I would assume the first show will not be totally jammed with participants. I just think it looks better to have fewer classes loaded with participants than 15 classes with one or two cars in them, like at the last two nationals. Maybe for the first show, have fewer classes, with an eye toward expansion based upon demand. Like Al, I'm not putting my car in to win anything, but to represent the marque. Its not a perfect car by any stretch, but as a participant I want to be proud of the show I put the car in and participating in a show that has vastly understocked classes is kind of embarrassing. For instance, they had one Wildcat in the Wildcat class again this year. What's the point? Also, put ALL THE SHOW ENTRANTS in the same area. Once again this year they ex-communicated the street machines and G.N.s to the racetrack. What was the point. At least if they would have put them all in one location it would have looked like a half-way decent show, not an underrepresented one. I am not in this for a trophy, but when I'm in a car club, it represents me and my car. I don't want that representation to be a joke, which was the impression I got from the last two nationals. I attended my first nationals in '88, at which I believe I saw your prototype car for the first time. The show was tremendous then and I'm deeply saddened that somewhere along the line something was lost. Maybe its rose colored glasses, but from 88-92 the Nats were kickin' and now they're just kickin' up daisies. Thanks for your work and I'll add whatever stupidity you'll listen to, for whatever its worth. Just looking at the attention to detail in your cars I am confident that you'll do a fine job. Robert Rennick BPG member
'92 was my 1st year in the GSCA and attending the Nats. As I recall the Nats was ROCKIN up till about '96.:bglasses: From then it seems to me it really fell off. Just the way I remember it. Ronnie
First off, Richard Lassiters Old Blue was not in the Concours Class. I was one of the judges and we did not judge his car. He was asked to put his car on "Display" next to the Concours cars in order to get more people interested in looking at the Concours Class. And as far as "Different rules for different folks" is concerned, if you bring your car to the Concours Class you get treated the same, friend or foe doesn't matter to me, the car gets the points it deserves and thats that. We are more then fair with our judging, sometimes too fair. Brad, I formally request a GSX look-a-like class to be added to insure that people like Al Fiandaca and others have a place to show their cars. I also think we should have "Display only" cars that can be put in their respective classes but will not be judged. I have the window cards done already for judged, display, archival, and senior, like the BCA has. If you need help setting up the classes let me know, I already have rules set up for a BPG Concours class, in case we want to do one, all I have to do is put on the new logo. Jim W. already has a copy. We also need to address the "Super Cars", ie the Motion, Stage 2 cars, and possibly Yenko cars that might end up in a Concours class in the near future. I am referring to Jim Hawthorne's 69 Motion GS and to a possible 70 Yellow GSX Motion car that has come to my attention. The 69 and 2 of the Stage 2 cars are documented, the jury is still out regarding the GSX. Duane
Perhaps we should start a new thread for the prospected show rules ?? I'll throw out a few thoughts anyway AFTERMARKET GUAGES Alot of our Pre-70 cars just plain didnt have an option for us to have any....and to drive our cars hundreds of miles or to race them or Both !!! is silly without knowing AT LEAST the 4 basics - RPM, Oil Pressure, Water Temp and Volts. Nothing gaudy like drilled to the top of the the dash pad or hose-clamped to the hood. Tach on the steering column or A-Pillar, others tastefully under dash. Pure Stock / slightly modified This one's going to draw alot of debate....I feel group them together by body types / years With the hood CLOSED - If it looks close to stock its :TU: Too many of us have gone the performance route to say that alum. manifolds, headers, and holleys aren't allowed. Just look at the "Post your Engine Pictures" thread i started a few days back and at all the diversity there. If its stock....as in pure stock you should be striding for Concours. I think the Concours class should be toned down a bit to accomodate the stock cars that aren't 50K resto's. Have 3 classes here, 65-67 - 68/69 - >70 and ENCOURAGE people to enter this class if they are STOCK Appearing !!! too many people are scared away by the word Concours X-Machines - Prototypes, Baldwin/Motion, Yanko, Stage2, and even customs like Duane's X-Camino.....why ?? because basically they're all one or two of a kind Al's case needs an answer and I dont have one for that. GSX-Look-alike ?? are Sky's allowed too ?? Here's something else I've been mentioning for years Have a distinct place on the cars' display info sheet (the one you fill all the info about the car on) where you can affix a TIME SLIP to Why ? Say you see 2 beautiful 70 GS455's sitting next to each other. Very hard to decide who to vote for. One has a time slip showing he made a 13.2 pass and the other doesn't display a time slip. Guess who I'd vote for ?!?!?!? Our cars are about performance and i think we should encourage a trip down the 1320 ..... Just some thoughts....
I was curious how the turn-out would be. Al Faircloth gave my reason for not attending this year. ( or last year) My children are in school until May 23, and their baseball/soccer seasons are a daily chore until May 29. So that is why we can't attend. I have attended the Southeast BOP Musclecar challenge in Reynolds, GA each of its 4 years in existence. This past November, I couldn't locate Richard Lasseter to re-new my membership with the GSCA, so I simply have dropped out of that organization. People have to be available if they want $$$ and support. I hope the GSCA survives and re-thinks some of their current policy. Otherwise.....o No: Russ Waters 1970 Skylark Convertible 455
I'm not much of a show participant, though I love seeing the cars. Just an idea here with judging. How about something like the BCA Judging, a 100 point system. This way two cars can actually be winners. Gold for lets say 95-100 and Silver for 85-95 and Bronze for 80-85. Just kicking a general idea here. I'm not the expert in this field. But this way you can have more than one top winner. Duane I love the offer to help Brad on the show. You are extremely knowledgeable and would prove to be a huge asset to the event. Rick
