Count me in Brad and Duane, thanks for at least listening to my concerns, thats more than I recieved at BG. Right here and now, I'd like to offer any help I can with the BPG car show. I know it takes bodies to run such an event and am willing to put up or shut up...:TU: I fully agree with you Duane that we need a "Clone" class. It could encompass ALL cloned vehicles (GS cloned to GSX, Skylark cloned to GS, Regal cloned to GN or any car cloned to another type). With the values rising on original cars, I see more and more "cloned" vehicles appearing. One big problem I see as very important is the lack of a "Driver" class for the show. I hear time and time again the same story, " I'd like to participate in the show, but my car isn't nice enough to compete with trailered cars, so I don't enter" How many of us have seen beautifull cars parked in the parking area of the Nats and wondered why they weren't being displayed....o No: I would love to see EVERY Buick that attends the BPG Nats on display SOMEHOW. Even if we have a Buick only parking area, we can follow our original BPG creed of "Inclusive not Exclusive"
This discussion is very interesting and deserves it's own thread. What kind of classes are you considering for the Rivieras?
I just posted a new thread for the show class...please move our thoughts over there. If one of the mods can move those reply's on my post to the new thread, I would appreciate it.
About the time of year issue, everybody says "GRADUATION" about BG. I say "BACK TO SCHOOL" for the secound week of august.My kids(1 HS,1 College) start the third so books, clothes and tuition(plus the HEAT) might keep me from coming. There are two sides to everything. Peace on Earth WildBill
RUSS! Good to see you are still around. We need to get together some time here in Atlanta with all the other Buick guys. There's quite a few actually. Me, Mark Reaves, Don McIntosh, Bill Milsaps, Gene Lindsey, Craig Meadows, You, Scott Jones, Rob G., Lloyd Kaler, Tim Mirocha, Ken Smith, and several more whose names escape me. There's a huge cruise in at Riverstone Parkway in Canton, GA and at the outlet stores in Dahlonega. Good points, BTW. With a boy on the way and a wife that's a school teacher, the event or events that make it possible for me to attend during the out of school period is the one or ones that will get my support and $$. Alan
show classes Has any thought been given to a" survivor" class,where the car is at least 90% original?My 69 GS 400 was purchased new by me in Feb 1969,it has 17000 original miles and is all original,from the interior to the paint.except for a touch up or two.It has some stone nicks and the paint is thin in areas,it used to show well in the 70's even 80's,but it can't compete against the frame off cars. I don't want to do a perfect restoration because then its not original anymore,and I think we need to preserve our heritage as much as possible.But I really don't show it any longer since it is'nt appreciated for what it is by most on- lookers.There may be a lot of survivors that are in the same position,and it would be a nice display to show what the cars actually looked like from the factory,original flaws and all. gary
The concours class is basically a "Restored" judged class. That's all it is. It was developed to bring the GSCA cars up to the standards of the BCA. Nothing more then that. I myself think that any buick, whether it is a skylark, GS, etc should be able to compete in this class. The only limitations I see would be the knowledge of the judges. I know the 65-72 cars best. We have others in the group that know the GN cars. Gary, As far as unrestored survivors I think this type of car is very important, and everyone loves to se them. The BCA has an "archival class" for cars like this, and I already have the beginnings of the rules for the BPG. Cars in this class get deductions for reproduction or new parts. When I heard the club was starting I began working on the rules, just like I did for the GSCA, just in case we needed them. As far as a "Clone" class I have been trying to get one for years. I think we should try to include one. I am up for whatever the masses decide, but if we have a restored class I think it should be judged according to the GSCA Concours/BCA judged classes. This way cars in this class will do good in the other buick events as well. Whatever you decide in the other classes is fine with me. Duane
I'm glad someone mentioned survivor cars. I was asked by Brad Berger to help judge, but I was riding with someone, and we weren't able to get to the track by 9:00. I am actually glad to have missed it, because I personally can't stand people nitpicking my car, and wouldn't do it to someone else. I know what's wrong with it already. That said, my Stage 1 is almost completely original (cosmetically)down to the A/C belt and radiator cap, and I can spot what's wrong with other '70 cars because I know mine is correct. The only thing I lack is the correct vacuum port on the intake, and spark switch on the carb....anyone got them for sale????? I would have had a mob chasing me if I had helped judge, and for good reason. I enjoy the carshow as a spectator because these folks have rare and beautiful cars that they drive on a regular basis. Most of them drove them to the show, which is better than I was able to do at the moment. It really is unreasonable to expect them to show up other makes on the street and strip without the go-fast goodies that Richard, et al, have exhorted us to buy. It's also unreasonable to expect that they will have perfect paint and bodywork, or bias ply tires. I love just checking them out. The concours class is a real thrill, because the rest of us can enjoy the fruits of someone else's extensive research, time and hard-earned money, and see what our cars looked like on day one (excepting the fact that none had show chrome or glassy paint). I am very thankful to Duane for sharing his extensive knowledge and time with the rest of us. If Duane feels it is 100% correct, it should be able to place at BCA or Pebble Beach. I guess I should get to the point.....While I know what things should look like, I will never have a concours car. I don't ever show my cars because of a bad experience in my teens with my 4speed, not because they couldn't win. There are just too many ways to get my blood pressure up in a carshow that I can avoid by leaving the car in the parking lot. When I go back to BG I will drive one of my cars(for all the reasons Marco stated) and leave it in the parking lot with a "not for sale" sign for all the other reasons. Dan
GS Nats car show count Regarding the number of cars in the show, including concours and a few display only cars there were at least 150. Easy to figure since I shot all of them. Non-Regal and Regal were about equal. They are all in the Show section of my web site. www.gsxcitement.com
Warped: Not in the GS car show there weren't. The infield of the circle track had easily twice the number of cars in the GS car show. I also took pictures and video of the show. Not to nit pick but there is no way to spin the '03 show into a well attended event. Twenty five cars, tops were in the grass. At least three classes had one or two cars in the entire class. I cannot recall one of the GS classes that had any more than 5 cars in it. 150, no way.
Robert, I think he is saying 150 for all classes. The GN vs GS would be about 75-75. You are right about the hill though. My calculation was about 30, but I'm estimating the 65's that are along the fence, you can't see them in the picture. Jeff
Jeff, Great pic. That's what I remember from the Nats this year. The grassy knoll......that was in some respects the possible death knell to me of the Nats. There's a 3 day F-body only event here in Marietta this weekend that will have many more cars than were at the Nats and there's not even any racing involved. I wish you had an older pic from few years back to offer as a comparison so others could see the difference. Quite a major difference. Too bad. I hate to see any Buick event headed south. Alan
Re: show classes A really good point... This car is completely amazing! For someone like me in their mid-late 20's, seeing a car as it came from the factory is a lot cooler than seeing a 50K resto job! Gary, I will be sorting out the stainless this weekend, and I will get the rest back ASAP... sorry about the delay. Steve
HOLY MOLY!! :eek2: THAT was the show!?!? Now it is REALLY sinking in! If I hadn't have been screwed by my body guy with the most horrible excuse for a resto for 12K, I'd have been there, but my car is back down in his shop in NC because all my paint was bubbling, my lower right quarter panel contour was matched up incorrectly when welded, my vinyl roof seams were WAY off line and my drivers side door wouldn't even shut. Otherwise I would have been there. That pic is pathetic. You know RL will most likely spin it off that the club is by the people and FOR the people and if it was your choice not to go he has no control over it. You know the whole story. Instead of getting to the root cause it's usually spun off as something else, usually related to member malfunction. What the hell has changed from the early nineties that nobody goes anymore? Is it high cost of parts? That can't be all it is. I realize all the things that were listed as possible causes, but none of those reasons are any different from what they've always been. There's never been tons of repro parts, used parts have always been expensive, Bowling Green is as far away now as it's ever been and it's always been in April or May save for one or two years, so what gives, why is it different now? I just don't buy the economy thing. We've had sucky economies here and there through the life of the Nats, never such a steady decline as now in the Nats though.
Besides the economy, and the threat of rain most days, I think one of the reasons for the low turnout is because many cars are currently involved in restorations. It seems like a lot of the cars that looked good for many years, have reached a threshold and need restored/freshened up. We all know how long some restorations can take and how hard it is to find all the parts. Duane
There were more cars in the circle track area. I counted more like 200 +. But that is still down from any year after 1984. Reasons? 1.) High cost of parts (and lack of some) 2.) Wrong month (even the locals think we are crazy) a. Locals said BG has more than 5" of rain in May b. Children still in school 3.) Seemingly arrogance of the powers that be (RL and BJ) are not exactly "people" people, but are not that bad once you get to talk to them 4.) Did I mention the high cost of parts? 5.) No new Buick to excite the younger crowd Even when they make a good decision it bites them in the back!! I am refering to the correct decision to run on Friday rather than wait until Saturday, with the chance of rain all day. It turned out to be a great day after the rain stopped.
From all the people I've spoken with, #3 is by far the biggest reason for the downfall of BG.............
That picture was taken after 2:00 because my car isnt in it. Racing started at 2 and anyone who was going to race was already back in the pits. There were LOTS more cars in the show than these pictures depict. Look at Lance M.'s photos for a more accurate count. The circle track was full, as was the entire lane from the knoll to the safety inspection shed. 200+ easy, so dont be too alarmed, the GS Nats ain't goin no-where. And some VERY nice cars in the show as well. At the entire event for that matter. If you missed it.........oh well. There were 150 or so folks that never picked up their reg packets for whatever reason. I would say the majority of these people were possible show go'ers that were spooked by the dismal forecast. We were all fooled, as the weather was pretty good all week, other than the heat and the humidity.:ball:
