Hello freindly buick owners Have a '66 Riviera gs with a '63 401 that does'nt look like it's giong to run without some SERIOUS help. looking at 2 options,Buick 455 (any year) or cadillac 472/500 (any year). have read alot about both but have no actual experience with either.So I was wondering of the two wich would be the better choice overall.Not looking to build a race riv,just something to get me around somewhat economicaly and still be able to DESTROY the punks in thier stupid sunfires and hondas. Bear in mind it is a GS so it has 3.42 gears wich would be okay for either i think. Just fishing for opinions is all Any input would be GREAT.Really! ANY! Thanks a whole helluvalot -justycakes
finding a good running 455 is an easy task. if you wanted to add a couple of performance upgrades, more will be available for th 455. probably alot less pitfalls if you go with th buick mojo. i bet every one on this board is gonna tell ya to use buick in a buick ... one of mine has a TBI/SBC/700R4 in it ... i love it.. but my other has a buick 350QJ/350turbo and its ok too. if you are lookin to drive the car long term, dont get yourself in a position where you cant readily find replacement parts.
got thinking about that later.This IS a Buick forum.But,as far as availability goes,I KNOW where there are old caddys laying around for cheap.But I can't seem to find any Buicks. Then again I hav'nt really been out and about yet.Still in the thinking/planning stages. as far as parts go,I live pretty close to outlets who stock old/odd parts for old/odd cars,I don't think it will be that big of a hangup. I am wondering what else you could mean by "pitfalls". Thank you for your input
There is a guy on the Board runnning some awesome Caddy power. I think it is Daryl R but I could be wrong. The Cad engines made more torque than even the Buick 455.
If you are going to replace your Nailhead power, be prepared to do a lot of mods, basically the reverse of what I did to mine. I had a '66 for the parts. The radiator is reversed, requiring drilling new hole locations drilled in the core support (no biggie), the radiator cover is different, the tranny is different, transmission cooler lines are different and tricky to bend, the engine wiring harness (no biggie) is different, the power steering pump and hoses are different, and it is very tricky welding in the new frame mounts for the different engine block, especially if you are using a fan shroud. The A/C compressor should you want A/C should fit OK. I had to only make one small bend on one of my compressor lines. For what it's worth, the exhaust pipes are different also. Still wanna do it? If you have a '67 parts car this change would be much easier for you to do.:Smarty:
That interests me. On a program about musclecars on TV, they said that the HEMI had an equal amount of torque as the Buick 455, but Caddy was never even mentioned. And we thought Buick owners get the bum rap......:blast:
What the aftermarket scene like for a Caddy engine? WOuld he be wiser to go with the 455 based on what he can do with it in the future, modification-wise? Does Caddy have the equivalent of TA Performance or Tri-Sheild?
Actually, the Caddy scene is brighter than ever before!! Potter's Automotive, MTS, the Cad Company/Flashcraft, and others are probably busier than ever.:bglasses: With the introduction of the Bulldog aluminum heads and intake, they're just scratching the surface on some serious performance #'s!! The Caddy 472/500 blocks were blessed with an even higher nickle content than our 455's. They are extremely rugged blocks. The can be bored twice as far as most of our 455's. The stock crank can be offset ground to over 4.500. Getting 540" from a 500" isn't terribly hard...reasonably inexpensive, all things considered. Go here to visit an unbiased Cadillac Forum. There are several different vendors represented there.
The Hemi was rated with less torque and both the Caddy engines had more. I think the Caddy engines ranked one and two for all time torque from GM production engines. The buick 455 was #3. I am not sure if any recent Caddy engines changed that. I think we are talking late 60s and early 70s Eldorado engines here. Stump pullers. Low rpm but high torque. Dennis Manner told me at Flint that "HP does not killl engines, but high rpms do".
The 1970 472'' made 525lb/ft. and the same year 500'' made 550lb/ft. You don't rev a stock BB Caddy past 4500rpm....that's part of the reason they last so long.
No...that's just in bone stock condition!! The Caddy had weak valve springs and a wimpy rocker system. The aftermarket has rectified that in several stages, for anywhere from a mild engine with good springs that rev's to 5000rpm....to a full boogie roller rocker shaft system!!!:TU: You don't need to get real carried away to run normal rpms.
:Smarty: Well, from what I've read the motors are perfectly capable of revving over 4500, there just isn't any point to it without modifications. These engines can't breathe on the top end without new heads and cams. As a matter of explanation, the reason Caddy made these engines so huge was to solve the following problems: - They had huge cars, so they needed huge torque off idle to move them. - They were Caddies, and as such they needed to idle incredibly smoothly. This meant they had to have really small cams. - They had to be quiet. So, how do you have an engine make huge low end torque with a tiny cam? You give it small-port, high velocity heads, and a whole lot of displacement. To keep it quiet you give it a restrictive intake without any intake whine, and a really restrictive exhaust. If all you want is low-end torque, the displacement will make up for the intake and exhaust shortcomings. That's why it doesn't make any power over 4500. Therefore, to make big power on a caddy engine, you just need to open it up. Putting cam, intake, and headers on a caddy is a HUGE improvement. Once you do those, it really unplugs the motor's nose so you will want a bigger carb too. Making more power after that is all in how you work the heads. The bottom end is so strong already that you don't need to work on that until you are making some REALLY serious power. Just what I've read. - Freed
Here's a new take: A souped up Caddy motor in a Buick blowing the doors off the other guys. That oughta ruffle their feathers! Some of those older ones came with dual quads, too. Awesome!!:Brow:
first off thank you all for the discussion.This benifits me greatly. second of all I am very impressed with this board and everyone on it,you are all so helpful. in response to nailheadina67,BELIEVE ME I would love to stick with the nailhead,but it would need a complete workover, plus it's a 401,I could bore it out to 425,but it would probably be an expenseive job,maybe not. PLUS I would never find a "round top" ST400 to go in there and I sure as HELL aint gonna use the fricken dynaflow. looks like I got some thinking to do thanks again everyone
