edelbrock heads- gessler

I totally agree Larry, I just think it is fair for someone searching for a head combo to get as much info as possible. It is very easy to think max flo and max HP but in reality you have to do major suspension, tranny, rearend, and fuel supply work to get a reliable 600HP. If someone thinks in terms of $s you can go a little less crazy searching for HP numbers and concentrate on putting the power to the ground instead. A race car set up is a totally different story, go for the power and then get the suspension combo to put the power to the ground. The fun can be lost if the street car gets too radical and just blows the tires off.

My car is able to hook up well and use the power I have even with street tires, it is because I chose to go the route of combination instead of max power. I have chose to go with some rhoades lifters before I get to use my drag tires but it should do very well. It has impressed many people around here.

If you can afford to buy the best parts in these economic times and afford the gas then go for it.

If there is someone asking about edelbrock heads and getting told everytime that the TA heads are better, then I think someone should also explain all the good things the edelbrocks bring to the table. That simple.
I'm not trying to get into a peeing match, just trying to use my years of building combos to save people the grief of going for too much power if most of the usage is on the street.

The 1/4 mile glory only lasts so long, but the feeling you get when you drive the car to shows or cruise nights never dies.

Again, I feel these are good points to be added to suggestions made about combos, unless this is a race only forum I feel my information can help and not just make it always about flow #s.

Thanks guys!

Steve

 

You got that right buddy, I like your advise and it shows you have well thought out steps to improve your car but keep the fun factor. I hope you know how much your imput is appreciated.

Steve

 

I also would have to agree with some of the thoughts above. Since you're starting from scratch with this engine and you really want the power, I'd go for the Stage 2 heads also. They'll support a lot more in the long run. You'd hate to get the stage 1 heads and realize a year later that you want to upgrade to the stage 2's.

And you have to make sure that the rest of the car is up to the task of that engine. Trans, rearend, brakes, suspension all play into the equation at those levels of horsepower. Good luck.

And if you decide to go with the stage 1's and don't like them, I'd be happy to buy them from you..........at a slighter lower price of course.

 

i agree with that also since if the heads flow better and the engine can make the the same hp 1000 rpm lower then a different combo with the same hp
then the stress and wear your putting on your engine is less and it would last longer

 

$1400 MORE?

This where we're having the breakdown.

At your power level, using TA's heads doesn't require the use of expensive roller rockers. Stock steel are just fine. This is a fact established by noted Buick engine builders such as JW. Search long enough, and you will find it..

You HAVE TO buy Chevy-style rockers and new pushrods when buying EB's, adding to their cost. The delta is no where near $1400.

If you wanted to make more power (600 or so plus), then the Edelbrock heads will require the expensive shaft-rocker system anyway.

One thing Edelbrock has successfully done is to drive a wedge smack in the middle of the most important part of our engine build-up. Thanks Edelbrock!

 

well let whoever thinks they are saving money buy edelbrocks and spending the extra money porting then going ta alums anyways they wont have saved a dime and you blow right by them at the track
i have been dissapointed way to many times on engine builds
haveing learned from mistakes,other builders,ta,kenne bell
and of course v8buick.com
my combos have turned out better and i am happier:laugh:
so let them learn form thier pocket book.some will read this and do more research others will do what they want .
just know that if your happy with what have thats says the most
also you would think brock would have atleast came out with an rpm intake
to help these heads make some power
they should have made them heads for 350 guys -thats an untaped market

 

You also have the option to go with just roller tips on the edelbrocks to limit cost. Heck if someone wanted to wait to purchase rollers for the edelbrocks they can even use stockers for a bigger savings.

To get an equal compare I would compare roller rockers to roller rockers, and new pushrods. I wanted full rollers on either head just to reduce friction so like I said it was 1,400.00 less and free shipping. Either head can use a stock rocker to save money. This is no knock against The TA price but let the truth be the truth on prices. I don't have my TA catalog with me to state what exact price I was looking at when I made my choice. So add the price of premium pushrods, roller rocker set, and shipping to the cost of the TA head and post it. I have posted my price break down that I paid before, compare and the numbers will speak for themselves. The better head costs more as they should, if you choose stage 1 heads and leave them stock with no porting and feel good about the stock rockers and push rods your still saving around 600.00 dollars and possibly more because the edelbrocks can be bought from Jeg's with free shipping.

These are all the factors I used to make my choice and to the best of my knowledge all facts. If I had these posts to look at when I was shopping it would of helped big time, Just post the facts as we get them and people can make an easy choice.

Steve

 

e heads bare -price from jegs
part#350-60039 $709.99 one head
ta sge 1 se bare both heads form 2007 catalog online
$1395
1750 for full e heads from ta
2450 for full ta heads
e heads require pushrods,rockers,intake bolts
ta heads can use all stock stuff
so someone post stock flow numbers for both and these will be the facts

 

I just noticed the weight of the edelbrocks are 36 lbs. each, not sure how much it would run for shipping but I thought it would be around 80 dollars. Mine were free which helped. Also noticed Jegs price went up to 920.00 each where I paid 900.00 complete.

 

You HAVE to buy new rockers, pushrods and bolts for the EB's. That HAS to be added into to the cost of upgrading. That is the TRUE cost comparison of bolting on a set of aluminum heads for a given goal.

One would have to question why adding roller-tipped rockers to an EB headed 500 HP BBB would have any validility in this discussion. Their benefit is negligible at this level.

If you are looking for the most bang for the buck (like most of us are), I still think the TA S1 SE a better value than EB's.

If you get to a level where you need a Buick roller rocker system on a TA head, then you have to figure in the cost of upgrading the EB's to a shaft system too.

 

To put this discussion in a whole other perspective, I wonder how many people who bought TA S1 SE heads wish they bought EB's instead..

 

I think the Edelbrock heads offer quite a bit. Maybe they don't flow as well as TAs, but then has anyone done a max effort port job on them yet to see what they are capable of? It would be interesting to see.

The thing I like about being able to run Chevy rockers is if I break one while on the road or at the strip, I would be willing to bet I could find a replacement rocker a LOT quicker then if I'm running the Buick shaft style.

I wouldn't exactly say that the Chevy style rocker is bad. Plenty of folks run some incredibly high horsepower with them. The shaft design is better only when running extreme spring pressures or if you plan on spinning the engine at very high rpm (which most of us will never do). In those cases one would be silly to use anything less then a Stage 2 head and a quality shaft mount roller rocker. The Edelbrock heads are positioned in the market exactly where most of the Buick Enthusiasts reside, street/ strip, rpm below 6500 rpm, lift below .550.

I give them credit for not only making a head for our very limited appeal engines, but also doing some interesting engineering on them to give people some options regarding the valve train. :TU:

 

Don't forget to mention the edelbrocks give you a fully adjustable valvetrain without needing the adjustable pushrods. I also have seen many dyno tests in magazines that show 12 to 15 HP gains by switching to the full roller rocker arms on street strip engines. It can't hurt to reduce friction and add stability. I'm looking forward to seeing more track results in the months to come and more dyno results. :TU:

 

The only reason I decided on the Gessler Level 3 TA heads is the history, both TA's and Greg's experience with them. At the time there was not enough info to make me sway away, I have already done enough trial and error in the last 25 years, believe me. Of course, by the time I actually bolt them on a whole lot more will be known about the protential of the Edelbrocks.

Edelbrock: Personally I have no worries about a stud mounted rocker arm for a BBB application due to my experience with high-rpm, high spring pressure SBC engines. The aftermarket rockers and springs for those engines are both affordable and durable for 7000+ rpm applications which our engines will not see for street/strip efforts. Shaft rockers really don't come into play but for max effort jobs.

One item that has already been highlighted by more than one builder is the poor quality of the Edelbrock valve job, which is apparently no problem on the TA heads. Because of this one must take into consideration that buying the Edelbrock head fully assembled may very well mean a re-do on the valve job to get the most out of them. If so, you are then paying for this service twice. I don't expect this to improve significantly over time, I believe the valve seat/grind process is one area where Edelbrock saves money with automation and is probably the case regardless of which head they're offering (conjecture on my part).

I decided to put my money where the Buick passion was showing through, but that is only my personal choice and not a recommendation.

Devon

 

This is the way I'm starting to lean after seeing gessler offers a nice stage 2 TE setup for roughly $3150. I have 2 trucks I drive daily... one for work, one's a blazer... so the street-ability thing isn't really an issue. I like the wild street/strip stuff, and I've had one before... but it was a chevy lol. I've had this buick since before I even had my license, about 6 years, and I've fianlly got the income to take it beyond the 350 with a 4 barrel edelbrock and headers, and I want some wild numbers that'll still see the street. Thanks for all teh help guys. I was too busy today to give gessler a call, but I'll be on it tomorrow and I'll be sure to post his advice here.