Escargot anyone??????? Yes, ANOTHER build thread from me...

Discussion in 'High Tech for Old Iron' started by theone61636, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Well, I can never leave well enough alone and after racing the Riv a couple weekends ago I've decided to take the plunge and see just how long this block will hold together. based on my track times I'm making roughly 360-370 to the wheels and for such a heavy car i was holding my own at the track but im tired of getting run down at the top of the track but the forced induction guys. Soooooo, ive decided to add a snail of my own and add just a pinch of boost to the equation.

    Went with a S400SX4:
    75mm compressor
    88mm turbine
    1.32AR exhaust T-6 housing

    The goal is 6-7lbs of boost, no intercooler and E-85. I'm hoping with such a large turbine and housing it wont spool until 3500-4000rpms but we'll see. it should be a wild ride to kaboom. Stay tuned.
    IMAG0509.jpg IMAG0513.jpg IMAG0512.jpg IMAG0510.jpg IMAG0511.jpg
     
  2. Clanceman427

    Clanceman427 Hardtops need not apply

    Sounds like fun!
     
  3. sriley531

    sriley531 Excommunicado

    Man, that's gonna be fun right up to the point it grenades!
     
  4. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Lol, that's what I was thinking too. Whenever that happens I'll be switching to a forged 5.3 ps and really turn up the boost. Too bad there's not an aftermarket iron Buick block. Maybe, I'll do Buick 350 if those aluminum heads and single plane intake ever come out.
     
  5. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    You can handle the boost fine unless your compression is too high. Even then the E85 might make it ok. Also depends on the nature of the turbo. Don't know anything about the turbo you are running but with the Prochargers we find the Buicks seem to suck up a lot more air than other motors. 5 pounds of boost on one setup will be a lot different than the same boost with a different setup.

    The main thing with our motors is how hard are you willing to twist it. 6000 rpm it will take a while, 6500 things are iffy, 7000 :eek2: been there, done that and happy to still have the same block :rolleyes:
     
  6. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    My compression is roughly 9.5:1 maybe a little less so E85 should help keep me safe. I'm not willing to twist it too high as it is, I shift at 5200 and dont go higher than 5500 so I should be good from that aspect.
     
  7. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    No major updates. All my mounting flanges and hardware were lost in the mail so the company is reshipping it to me. I DID find a bunch of 4" piping at the Pamona swap meet yesterday so i saved a bit of money getting it there. Also found a 5" to 4" reducer so i should have most everything i need to start fab work soon.

    Still working out what i want the fuel system to be. Right now im leaning towards getting an Aeromotive fuel cell with the Eliminator pump inside. -10 line to regulator and -8 return and -8 to each fuel bowl. Trying to figure out if i want to try and convert my carb for blow thru AND E85 or just get a carb from CSU or C&S.
     
  8. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    I'll be watching this one!
     
  9. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    I can tell you from experience from two close friends of mine that blow thru and E85 is aggravating yea I know everyone on the bullet says BS but both my friends are very good wrenches and both have $2k CSU carbs and they both wish all the time that would have went EFI, if its in the budget it would be wise will be about $2k more than carb, notsaying its not possible because it is, but ive just seen them struggle with tuneups , granted they are also 1200hp small blocks with 20lbs of boost. Truck suppliers like your local Freightliner / international store will have all the pipe you may need ,RPS is a good source for turbo fab parts, in case you haven't discovered them already. Steve Morris is the man when it comes to boost,carb, and e85 he could offer a definitive answer about which carb but id prob shy away from home conversions willl much more support with a pro built carb
     
  10. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    Good plan on the fuel system. Cannot stress how important that is. Especially with E85.

    I know I am the one that said you can't twist our Buick's my shift light is set @5800 and chipped @ 6200. In my opinion twisting hard is going into the 6's a lot. :laugh: Nothing special about my build, just all the good things done to the stock pieces. I do have a Poston girdled pan.

    Went with a QuickFuel 650 BAN for my car. After a lot of tuning it works really well. Good street manners and nice fuel curve. Have no problem getting enough fuel into it at WOT. Have no idea how it would handle E85 but pretty sure I could get enough fuel into it. Not real expensive either. Would be nice to do fuel injection and if going over $1000 on a carb would start to look at something from FAST. With the fuel system planned you could go there.

    Very happy with the MSD 6AL-2 programmable. Able to run a MAP sensor for boost timing curve with good accuracy. Perked my car up and gives you a lot of control on timing.

    Can't help you on cam. Turbo cams and blower cams are different critters. Talk to Bobb at Finishline about a custom cam for your setup. A custom cam is in the low $200's, one of the cheaper parts for these projects.

    Should have the new blower pulley on mine this week and will see what the boost is. Looking for 6.5psi @ 5000 rpm.
     
  11. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Got some more parts today and should be getting more tomorrow but i wont spoil the surprise. Still havent decided on the fuel setup. I am partial to staying carburetor because i can tune it fairly easily. Understand E85 throws a wrench in there because of how much more fuel you need to use but I dont think for a car im not driving more than the weekends requires fuel injection.
     

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  12. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    What are you using for a wastegate and boost controller?
     
  13. 66larkgs

    66larkgs paul 66gs turbo nailhead

    one question was why full boost at 4k? why not 3k to 3500? Not sure what type of headers you made but I did crank pulley to the drivers side header with a t4. i run a s475 75mm with a 1.10 ar and a 92 exhaust wheel on my 401 nailhead. I did a 2.5 crossover pipe and wouldn't go any bigger than that. I even thought of a 2.250 crossover to see if it helps with lag. I would really do a -10an feed and return to a aeromotive boost reference regulator. than 8-an or 6an to the carb. i do run a aeromotive pump as well and the reason for the -10 return and least amount of resistance on the return line. I Run a CSU blow thru carb at 11psi boost with a ev carb hat. runs great and no issues with the carb. I run a tial wastegate and a tial BOV. are you going to lock out the timing also?
     
  14. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    From my experience I don't think that E85 is that big of a problem. I found that the big problem was not running lean but running rich. This was especially true at idle. With the QuickFuel blow through don't think you would have a problem with getting enough fuel. The problems I hear about are with people running high pressure boost. Then they get into all sorts of weird power valves and such.

    I think the big problem with E85 is knowing the quality of the fuel you are getting. Pump E85 can be all over the place. Far more than gasoline. You may be far better off staying with gasoline and run a methanol injection system for safety. When we had our GN at White's Racing they tune for very specific fuel and told me if I wanted to tune my big block that I should get all of my fuel from the same source. A lot of White's customers run GN's with E85 BUT they have a FAST ecm and a GM fuel sensor so the tune is automatically adjusted with the state of the fuel. Of course the ECM and fuel sensor can run over $3000. That's on a system that already has fuel injection. Like you I find it hard to justify that kind of cost for a weekend car.
     
  15. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    This may be helpful for all of us. The E10 is interesting because most of the gasoline available now in my area is E10. Ethanol Percentage Air Fuel ratio table.JPG
     
  16. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    I could live with a 3k-3.5k spool as well. I just want the power to come in later for traction purposes. I havent made any headers yet and i hope to stick with the stock manfolds on both sides (maybe reverse them if that helps with exhaust routing). Once i mock evertyhing up I'll have a better idea of if i will need to fab a header or not. Havent really given much thought to timing but i suppose i do need to figure that out at some point. What size wastegate are you using? I went for a 60mm unit since i want to keep the boost low but im thinking 50mm wouldve probably been fine.

    Wanting to use E85 is throwing a bit of a wrench into the design of the fuel system. I had though about injecting straight ethanol to help with octane and cooling under boost but i dont know how eth inj works on a carb setup and what affects that would have on booster signal and AFR. Also, would i be able to inject enough ethanol to increase the octane a signifcant amout? I used eth inj on my 85MR2 when i turboed that and it worked great as a supplemental fuel source but it was fuel injection so different situation. I would actually prefer this option as it would allow me to run gasoline which is more readily available and buy 100% ethanol to injection. I already have the eth inj system too. I guess ill need to do more research on the subject. if i stayed with gas, i will just convert my carb for blow thru and save myself tons of money.
     
  17. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    If you are going to run 7 lbs of boost max the turbo outlet temps will only be around 180 to 200 degrees depending on the outside air temp.

    Why not just use racing gas for the times you are at the track?

    Just have a small fuel cell in the trunk and switch from main tank to fuel cell when needed.

    Paul
     
  18. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Haha, come on Paul...we all know what happens when that nasty little mustang pulls up next to you on the freeway...they must be put in their place! No, in all honesty, nothing is off the table at this point. I know its silly to talk about cost when doing a build like this but race gas is expensive. If this was JUST a race car then sure, easy day. But, i do want to cruise to shows in this as well and although im a fairly reserved driver now that ive gotten older, i cant resist getting into it every now and then and to do that off the race gas is like playing with a hand grenade.
     
  19. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    Just get the programmable ignition system. You can run a street gas tune and a race gas tune. I pull mine into the garage, fire up the computer, plug it in and download the tune I want. Takes less time than filling up a methanol reservoir. Paid $355 for the box and stole a MAP sensor from a supercharged Buick at the yard. Locked the distributor out and done.
     
  20. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    I fully understand the freeway or stop light challenge. Just thought I would check anyway. LOL

    With low boost you should be able to control detonation with water/methanol injection.
    I don't think there is much effect on A/F ratio.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014

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