FI Tech "Go EFI 4" Self Tuning Throttle Body Injection Install Thread

Discussion in 'High Tech for Old Iron' started by real82it, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    Orange wire to control the relay is probably the best solution.
     
  2. 70purplerag

    70purplerag Silver Level contributor

    So I won't go into the frustrating details with my install at the moment. Needless to say the FCC is coming out for the same reasons many people have dealt with. Went with the Tanks inc setup. This whole project seems to be fighting me all the way. Finally getting closer. What are folks using for the 10mm x 1.25 for the return. Running into issues trying to source it. A link would be great. Thanks Kevin :Dou:
     
  3. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    Sage advice with any EFI.
     
  4. real82it

    real82it Silver Level contributor

    Do you mean what are we using for a return line? I ran a new 6an line return line back to the tank and attached with a 6an fitting.
     
  5. real82it

    real82it Silver Level contributor

    I had a strange experience today.

    FI tech has been running well (except for the fuel pump power wire mess...). but I was having some issues having to prime it twice to get it to cold start (this is a recent behavior in the last few weeks - previously it would prime and fire up).

    I decided to adjust the cranking fuel 65F value from 5 to 10. Car started fine and ran so I could move it out of the shop a short distance.

    A few hours later I went to start and move the car and it barely started and ran horrible. Idle was breaking up, would barely idle, and would not rev well. I let it run for awhile to see if it cleared up....it did not.

    I shut it off and put the setting back to 5 (which then changes to 4.7 when saved....). Tried it again within a few seconds.... same problem.

    I let the car sit for a minute or so to allow for a full power off cycle. I started it up and it ran perfect again. I checked a few hours later......still running perfect again.

    Strange result from changing that parameter.
     
  6. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    Are you able to read or datalog what the sensors are seeing when the key is on and engine off? Or even when it's on and running terrible? Sounds like to me it's getting a goofy reading from a sensor, usually easy to pick out if you can visually see the data. Look for the coolant or intake air temp readings to be wildly off from the ambient/expected temperature (like -40F, or 250F when it's cold, etc). Also look at the MAP reading with the engine off, should be between 90kPa-103kPa depending where you live.

    **edit** And if you do see odd ball numbers, check the power and ground wires the unit has, make sure they are tight.
     
  7. Ken Warner

    Ken Warner Stand-up Philosopher

    I doubt its part of your problem but there are a lot of complaints going around that the coolant temp sensors in the FiTech kits run about 20deg F cooler than actual temp at least when you are in the operating temperature zone.
     
  8. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    I see about a 20 degree difference between the FiTech temp and a mechanical gauge. When I do a heat gun reading the FiTech is closest, usually less than 5 degrees difference. I have another mechanical gauge so will try that and see if it is the same.
     
  9. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    My holley EFI specifically says in the instructions that any fuel pump drawing more than 12 amps requires a separate relay.

    http://www.lsxtune.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/503

    I highly recommend a sealed delphi style relay socket like sold above. Expensive but extra insurance for electrical components mounted in the engine bay.
     
  10. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    Unless the car was stuck in warm up mode the coolant temp being off by 20F wouldn't bother me much. The air intake temp on the other hand plays a much larger role in fueling.
     
  11. bdschuch

    bdschuch bdschuch

    Interesting, so did you mount the relay on the firewall and give it a separate keyed power source?
     
  12. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    I'm kind of curious how a Holley Hydramat would work instead of the FCC. Particularly those that don't mind racing with a few extra gallons of fuel just in case, as I'm sure it'd work fine on the street down to near empty. Looks like for an old car's gas tank they range in price from $150-$200. Then simply mount a high pressure pump in the fuel line somewhere.
     
  13. real82it

    real82it Silver Level contributor

    It would probably work fine. I put hydramat in another stock tank. While it was a pain to install, I was trying to make it work with a stock pick up for a mechanical pump.
     
  14. bdschuch

    bdschuch bdschuch

    Has anyone swapped out spark plugs for E3 or something with this setup? My plugs still look fine and aren't that old. Should I have something other than a stock spark gap? I have stock heads (462) My car still starts hard and inconsistently. I've dropped the prime to 100 and changed the crank fuel from -20 to -15 then
    to -5.
    My IAC at warm idle flops between 4 and 10.
    It drives nice most of the time but if I mash it and the car doesn't downshift, it will gurgle away and eventually figure itself out. If i want to get going to pass, i have to gear down my self and get the revs up.
    I'm not sure what issue to go after next because it seems that changing 1 thing will affect another.
    My idle is also erratic, I have it set at 650 RPM and idle fluctuates from 830 to 550ish.
    Any thoughts?
     
  15. Ken Warner

    Ken Warner Stand-up Philosopher

    IMHO 650 RPM is low for idle, in or out gear....

    You've asked a lot of questions over the last couple months but I don't see what you have done/not done at this point. So tell us where you are at with your setup now.

    Stock intake with open spacer/adaptor?
    What kind of fuel system?
    Timing set to where?
    Timing controlled by FiTech or mech/vac?
    Anything else that seems relevant...

    I don't think you are going to fix anything with E3 plugs other than an unnecessary pillaging of your bank account. If you have old crappy wires and tired spark plugs then get a good set of make your own MSD or Taylor spiral core wires and some AC Delco or NGK RESISTOR plugs. Run the wires around the valve covers with some sort of looms so you don't have plug wires draped all over the top of the intake near the throttle body or any of its associated wiring. A cap with brass terminals (i.e. MSD) will serve you well. When in doubt about what to buy and how to set it up, ask questions in the street/stip forum! Larry (the Wiz) will generally chime in if nobody else does when ignition related questions are posted and his advise is SOLID.

    I will re-re-re state after helping a guy locally with one of these that there are a few common issues that you really have to avoid.
    1. Keep the FI wiring especially the tach signal wire away from any MSD type box or anything else that might generate a frequency that might jump like a cooling or blower fan.
    2. Weld the freaking O2 bung to the header or collector and make sure there are no other exhaust leaks!
    3. You really should have about (at minimum) 80+ amp alternator that is pumping out good current/voltage even at your goal 650 RPM idle. An OLD 40-60 amp external regulator type charging system is gonna go low at idle and piss of the ECU. Some 1 wire units are flakey at idle even though they are rated for big current.
    4. These throttle body EFI systems don't seem to love dual plane manifolds. Some people do OK with them, I've read plenty posts where people fixed drivability issues by swapping the dual plane out, none where the opposite was true.
    5. If you are using the FiTech FCC you are pretty much doomed! Be prepared for all sorts of problems until you get tired of it and put a pump in the tank or buy a Robb MC fuel module.


     
  16. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    X2 on Ken's post. I always say that 90% of fuel system problems are in the ignition.

    Have you used the logging feature on your FiTech? This could give you important info on what your problem is.
     
  17. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    Follow all that up with unplugging your vacuum advance (and plug the hose) until the other issues are sorted out.
     
  18. bdschuch

    bdschuch bdschuch

    IMHO 650 RPM is low for idle, in or out gear....

    You've asked a lot of questions over the last couple months but I don't see what you have done/not done at this point. So tell us where you are at with your setup now.

    Stock intake with open spacer/adaptor? Edelbrock performer (dual plane i think)
    What kind of fuel system? Tanks inc tank and pump. -6 an line and return
    Timing set to where? not sure, id have to check
    Timing controlled by FiTech or mech/vac? not controlled by fitech, vac advanced is capped off per engine builder (Mike at AM&P)
    Anything else that seems relevant.. 200R4 with 2400 stall. vac at idle @ 12, in gear 10.
    i have the pertronix points conversion that i'm not tickled with. I just measured volts during crank and the low point is 10.7. Running it measures 14. George N recommended swapping in the Crane XRI ignition conversion so i may do that too.


    I don't think you are going to fix anything with E3 plugs other than an unnecessary pillaging of your bank account. If you have old crappy wires and tired spark plugs then get a good set of make your own MSD or Taylor spiral core wires and some AC Delco or NGK RESISTOR plugs. Run the wires around the valve covers with some sort of looms so you don't have plug wires draped all over the top of the intake near the throttle body or any of its associated wiring. A cap with brass terminals (i.e. MSD) will serve you well. When in doubt about what to buy and how to set it up, ask questions in the street/stip forum! Larry (the Wiz) will generally chime in if nobody else does when ignition related questions are posted and his advise is SOLID.

    I will re-re-re state after helping a guy locally with one of these that there are a few common issues that you really have to avoid.
    1. Keep the FI wiring especially the tach signal wire away from any MSD type box or anything else that might generate a frequency that might jump like a cooling or blower fan.
    2. Weld the freaking O2 bung to the header or collector and make sure there are no other exhaust leaks! done
    3. You really should have about (at minimum) 80+ amp alternator that is pumping out good current/voltage even at your goal 650 RPM idle. An OLD 40-60 amp external regulator type charging system is gonna go low at idle and piss of the ECU. Some 1 wire units are flakey at idle even though they are rated for big current i converted the alt when i installed the engine about 4 years back, i remember getting the higher amp alt as the price difference was peanuts.

    4. These throttle body EFI systems don't seem to love dual plane manifolds. Some people do OK with them, I've read plenty posts where people fixed drivability issues by swapping the dual plane out, none where the opposite was true.
    5. If you are using the FiTech FCC you are pretty much doomed! Be prepared for all sorts of problems until you get tired of it and put a pump in the tank or buy a Robb MC fuel module.

    I really appreciate the help.



     
  19. bdschuch

    bdschuch bdschuch

    I have logged, I just don't see anything that stands out. My biggest problem is starting so I'm going to do something to upgrade my ignition first.
     
  20. real82it

    real82it Silver Level contributor


    I am running the eddy performer intake with no issues....smooth as butter.

    I am also running the e3s. I know many people are not fans, but I have had very good results on 3 vehicles with these plugs. What converted me? I have a car that burns 1 qt of oil every 300 miles. I was fouling conventional plugs. I put these on....11,000 miles later and still haven't fouled one. Also, on my 97 Chevy vortec truck, noticeable smoother idle with these compared to conventional plugs.

    For your idle issue, I suspect a bad tach signal or vacuum leak. Where are you taking your tach signal at?

    What cam setting are you at on the set up? I would try 3 or 4 with that vacuum level.

    My cam only makes 12in at idle, 8 in gear. I have found that cam setting 3 worked best. I also quit trying to get my IAC steps at 5-10 in park at temp. If I adjusted my throttle screw in enough to get them that low, my idle would be too high many times in park or in gear. I now have it set where it is in the 20-40 range in park. Idle is fine.
     

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